B&W 4x5 film for indoor sports?

[Tin Can]

Bruce's explanation is correct... Just that someone won't get the same shadow detail at a pushed speed, as at the rated ISO... So not a true ISO speed...

Steve K

OK, qualifiers confuse concrete blinkers.

[Kevin Crisp]

Back when I was shooting indoor high school sports (1970-1973) an auto focus camera was unheard of. And shooting at f:2 or 2.8 meant a shallow depth of field. And with that tiny piece of film you didn't want to waste any of it by not being close enough. Same issues with outdoor available light sports like football.

So we used zone focus. This was explained to me by a friend who was a pro and used to use Graphics for sports. You just know in any sport where the action is going to be, predictably, at regular intervals so you focus on that place then take the picture when the athlete gets there. This is surprisingly useful and effective, event with TTL cameras that were too dim to focus anyway. It will not let you get the critical moment of a game (the dropped pass, or whatever) since you can't predict where THAT moment will take place. But you can reliably get good action shots, which was what the editor wanted. If you want the photo of the moment in a game, then you are going to need more photographers.

I always thought volleyball was the toughest.

[Peakbagger]

There are things that LF is good at and other things that LF is not good at. If I shot indoor sports on LF film, I would expect pity points for doing it the hard way, but no great images. This is a field where a good digital camera is hard to beat. Just my opinion.

I'm well aware that the odds are against me. What's worse is that I only have one film holder! 2 shots and DONE! I'd like to think that it would be a character building exercise

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[Struan Gray]

At 1/200 the blur will be 'artistic', even with kids. Or you'll have to stick to landings and balance poses. If you can bump the shutter speed up to 1/400 (Aero ektars are cheap) you will do much better.

The modern halls I shoot in (digital) are usually lit to EV 6 or 7, just like the older ones, but they are much more even, and the walls and floors tend to be brighter, which helps with the look. Professional arenas are usually one to two stops brighter, although some have switches that turn off half the lights when it's only kids playing :-)

You need 1/1000 to freeze the feet and hands of a tumbler, but bodies move less fast. Often, the head and eyes will be stationary when rotating or spinning, especially if the gymnast has been trained to spot a landing, which can lead to interesting effects if you do stick to slow shutter speeds. Easier to experiment with digital or MF/35 mm, and then pull out the big gun when you know the effects you are after.

[Peakbagger]

At 1/200 the blur will be 'artistic', even with kids. Or you'll have to stick to landings and balance poses. If you can bump the shutter speed up to 1/400 (Aero ektars are cheap) you will do much better.

The modern halls I shoot in (digital) are usually lit to EV 6 or 7, just like the older ones, but they are much more even, and the walls and floors tend to be brighter, which helps with the look. Professional arenas are usually one to two stops brighter, although some have switches that turn off half the lights when it's only kids playing :-)

You need 1/1000 to freeze the feet and hands of a tumbler, but bodies move less fast. Often, the head and eyes will be stationary when rotating or spinning, especially if the gymnast has been trained to spot a landing, which can lead to interesting effects if you do stick to slow shutter speeds. Easier to experiment with digital or MF/35 mm, and then pull out the big gun when you know the effects you are after.

This is my thought, landings or balance poses. A non-blurred jump in midair would be like the holy grail for me and I know it's beyond the capabilities of my current LF kit. At my daughter's last meet, I had a F2 200mm for my D800 and I got some frozen dynamic shots that I and her teammates' parents were really happy with. Though, focus at that shallow DOF meant I had alot of blurry shots too .

[Corran]

I don't think this was mentioned but I just thought about it, looking at some old photos I shot while planning a trip...

My best low-light photos using (almost) LF have definitely been taken with Fuji 3000B instant film, and then scanning either the print or the negative directly after cleaning up the residue.

Real ~3200 speed and instant feedback. The only problem is it's discontinued but stocks are still available. I still have quite a bit myself; no it's not for sale! It's only 3.25 x 4.25 in size though - the 4x5 variety has been discontinued much longer and even harder to find and more expensive. I've never shot it.

Here's an example, taken during rehearsal at the symphony I record with, using a Travelwide 4x5 and 90mm Angulon, scanned from the negative:

[Corran]

Here's a print scan for reference - more contrast on the print though the above is also a bit low-contrast due to the Angulon being shot wide-open.

[StoneNYC]

I don't think this was mentioned but I just thought about it, looking at some old photos I shot while planning a trip...

My best low-light photos using (almost) LF have definitely been taken with Fuji 3000B instant film, and then scanning either the print or the negative directly after cleaning up the residue.

Real ~3200 speed and instant feedback. The only problem is it's discontinued but stocks are still available. I still have quite a bit myself; no it's not for sale! It's only 3.25 x 4.25 in size though - the 4x5 variety has been discontinued much longer and even harder to find and more expensive. I've never shot it.

Here's an example, taken during rehearsal at the symphony I record with, using a Travelwide 4x5 and 90mm Angulon, scanned from the negative:

OMG the SHADOW DETAIL is missing!

This must not be a good shot then....


(This is sarcasm to point out that who the F(stop) caress about shadow detail in an indoor sports shot??!!!)

I mean really, these must all be bad images because the shadow detail is missing...



Taken from this article (source cited so no complaints from mods about "stealing" images) http://blog.allposters.com/boxing-ph...eatest-boxers/

Good luck OP, don't listen to some of the nay sayers, use your two frames wisely. Enjoy yourself.

[Struan Gray]

This is my thought, landings or balance poses. A non-blurred jump in midair would be like the holy grail for me and I know it's beyond the capabilities of my current LF kit. At my daughter's last meet, I had a F2 200mm for my D800 and I got some frozen dynamic shots that I and her teammates' parents were really happy with. Though, focus at that shallow DOF meant I had alot of blurry shots too .

I've had some good luck with panning at slower shutter speeds. I don't spray and pray, but I do discard 90–95% of what I take. I'm mostly photographing handball and basketball, where the faces and gestures of the rest of the team, and the opposing side, are important elements of the photo. Gymnastics is a little easier in that respect, but LF is going to be expensive (wasteful) if you go hunting for standard sports shots.

Were I to take LF to one of my regular gigs, I'd be inclined to photograph the wider picture, including the reactions of the crowd and the rest of the team watching from the wings. LF has a huge advantage when it comes to fine detail over a wide field, I'm not sure there's much point in going for a zoomed in close-up of an athlete in action - leave that to the 200/2s.

[pierre506]

HP5+ easily pushes to 3200 in DD-X. A magic combo, shoot it all the time in 120.

I know this is 120, but this is about a film type available in 4x5 and a film sped pushing, so please mods, don't get snippidy that it's not 4x5 please.

All HP5+ @ 3200 in DD-X....

This is one of my girlfriends, isn't she cute?

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The only part of my other GF I'm allowed to show, shot in a very dark bedroom

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To round it all off, a girl I went on a date with for a potential third gf, but she wasn't a good fit for me, still a very nice person

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And finally, single bulb in a very dimly lit basement...

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So you should be fine for what you seem to want to shoot, in 4x5 I doubt there will even be any perceptible grain.

dear stone, how long about the developing time using DD-X + HP5 on ISO 3200?
DD-X 1+4, or 1+9?

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