Recommendations on a good first 4x5 camera

[mangobar]

Recently i have been looking into large format photography and it has lead me to the conclusion that it is definitely something i want to take up and as such i am in need of a camera. In terms of price cheaper is better as long as it still does everything i need it to. Like a lot of the other postings on here with this topic im not sure whether i want to be looking for a field camera or a monorail. I'm leaning towards a monorail mostly because i would very much like the ability to use very wide angle lenses while making use of bag bellows and i haven't seen many field cameras that fit that bill. Obviously the downside is transporting a monorail is not quite as easy especially over longer hikes. I have been looking at something like a Sinar F1 partly because of the giant list of possible accessories available and there is someone selling one locally for 500$(CAD) that includes a bag bellows and an aluminium case as well as some other bits and pieces like film holders.

So my question is do i really want a monorail and if so what are some good options that are still relatively transportable, is the F1 one of those options, or if a field camera might be better for my purposes what a good option for that would be given i want to be able to use an ultra wide angle lens?

[Mick Fagan]

Depends upon on how wide you wish to go, but my Shen Hao HZX45-IIA 4x5 wooden folding field camera, can and does take a 65mm lens using the standard bellows, with one caveat, I use a recessed lens board. I know of a few people running 65mm lens on their 4x5" wooden folders and have personally seen two of them, one using a bag bellows, the other the same as myself using a recessed board and standard bellows.

http://www.shen-hao.com/PRODUCTSabout.aspx?i=950&id=n3

I can use the 65mm lens mounted onto a flat lens board, but I then use my bag bellows. I tried it once, purely just to see if it was dooable.

Attached is a picture of a 15mm recessed lens board for the Shen Hao, which is pretty much what my 65mm lens is attached too. I do have a bag bellows, which I carry and do use sometimes, it can be transported flat, which is how they leave the factory, plus it can be placed on the camera in about 1-2 minutes very easily.

I do have a monorail camera (three actually) I have taken some of them into the field for the hell of it, but they are reasonably bulky and within reason most of what you wish to do can be achieved with a wooden folder. That said, a good monorail is a joy to use.

Mick.

[Nodda Duma]

My first dive into large format was last year with a 4x5 Seneca No. 2 for doing dry plate photography.

It's old, it's ugly, has limited motion, and widest aperture is only f/11.

But it has it where it counts:

It was a minimal investment ($20 on eBay), simple to use, the bellows are light tight, the shutter is dead-nuts on, optics are clean, and it came with plate holders and film adapters so I could get up and running quickly without scrambling for missing stuff. Which is everything a camera needs to do to let me take great photos.

So as you look just keep in mind what's important for a camera to do its job.

[Don Dudenbostel]

Here's something to consider. If you're going to use a very wide lens like a 58mm or 47mm Super Angulon XL or even a 65mm Super Angulon, Nikkor SW or Grandagon you won't have much movement capability with any camera due to the limited size of the image circle. The 47 and 58 will only allow a few mm of movement at best. The 65 slightly more but in reality that amount of limited movement isn't of much value.

With a 75 you can get a usable amount of movement but still limited.

Look at the Anba Ikeda and Nagaoka. Very nice little light weight cameras and nicely made. You most likely will be limited to the standard bellows. I can't remember if they interchange but keep in mind with extreme wides you won't have much usable movement anyway.

From experience the value of a wide angle bellows is with a 75 / 72 at minimum and more so with a 90 or 120 / 125.

[Jim Jones]

My Anba Ikeda wasn't really cheap, but otherwise a similar camera might fit your requirements. It accepts a 65mm lens on a flat Linhof style lensboard and extends to about 13 inches. It is also one of the lightest available 4x5 cameras. The bellows is not interchangeable. It, and the similar Nagaoka and Tachihara, were available in several variations with different specifications. Unless you use long or heavy lenses, this class of camera seems more satisfactory than the monorail that some people carry when far afield. .

[Don Dudenbostel]

Not trying to shift your interest from 4x5 but if I wanted an ultra wide camera that's great to bile with and easy to use I'd get a Plaubel pro shift SW69. It's 6x9 on 120 roll film and has rise capability and a great 47mm Super Angulon f5.6. They're quite a bit more expensive is the downside.

I have a Brooks Veriwide with a 47 and roll backs and reay enjoy using it and it's a great size and weight.

[Tim Meisburger]

When buying their first camera I believe that for most people the best choice is a field camera. It doesn't do some things as well as a specialist camera, but it will do most things pretty well. So, if you are sure you want to work in a studio, or do commercial architecture, then a monorail could be a good choice. But just remember it is a specialist camera, not a generalist. The same can be said for specialist press cameras. yes they are 4x5, but they really only shine handheld, and do other things less well or as easy as a field camera.

My two cents, for what its worth...

[mdarnton]

I have a couple of Cambos, one set up as a wide angle camera. They're dirt cheap, have all the movements and accessories that you would want available, and are a lot cheaper than a Sinar. That said, they never leave the shop. I had initially thought I wanted a Sinar, but on the most common model the front standard rail mount is plastic and often broken, and I soon realized that sellers didn't know or wouldn't tell if theirs was broken, so I decided I'd look for something else.

Carrying a monorail camera is a pain. It's one of those things where you think there'd be a good way, but there isn't quite. For the road, I have an old wooden folding view camera. It's fine and with a recessed board will take W/A lenses. You don't get much in the way of movements with it--a little front rise, a little back swing--but that's enough for me.

As people are already saying, there are a lot of nice flatbed cameras out there that would do what you want. Their main shortcoming is really long lenses, but that doesn't sound like something you want, anyway.

[soeren]

The Chamonix 45F1 is another option that allows movements with the 65mm on a flat lensboard and it's universal bellows.I don't know the widest lens it's possible to use since the 65 is the widest I've got. To me monorails are heavy and cumbersome taking to much pleasure out of the shooting when out in the field.

[Peter De Smidt]

I agree with Michael. The Sinar system is terrific, but the entry F has a number of weaknesses. Other brands will give you a better camera for the same or less money. Toyo, Cambo, Horseman, ..., are worth checking out.

One thing to note, while many people love super wides with 35mm or digital, they often don't go as wide with 4x5". For instance, with 35mm I used my 20mm a lot, but in 4x5 my widest lens is 90mm. That's just an observation, and of course their are exceptions. You might start with a 75mm or a 90mm, lenses which are fairly inexpensive with a little looking, and they're easier to use. If after some experience you desire something wider, you can always add another lens.