Wista RF/SP/VX comparison- Is there something I'm missing?

[Noah A]

... I've managed to keep the monetary strain of this hobby at levels commensurate with my wage. ...

This is very smart, sorry I suggested something so expensive. I wasn't aware of your budget, but it's smart to stick to it. Two TK's sold on eBay recently for $860 and $990. But when every penny counts, I totally understand that's a lot of money.

Larger monorails are going to be a bit big to put in a backpack. So if you can live with the amount of movements, then you're right that a field camera is a good choice. Even if it's not as flexible as a monorail, you'll be more likely to bring it along so it'll get more use. And you can probably adapt to its limitations.

I'll try to dig up an image with the vignetting in a little while so people can see what I'm talking about. But I didn't intend to make such a big deal of it. The Wistas are great cameras, and I think the VX is a great value. I would decide on it vs the Toyo based on the specific movements you need.

[senderoaburrido]

I can't commend on the Wista's but my experience with the Toyo is that the revolving back indeed vignettes, except when it is either (almost) in landscape or portrait direction.

Why do you limit your choice between a Wista and a Toyo? There are quite a few other field camera's out there that have loads more movements, for instance the Chamonix and Shenhao camera's.

Ah! I thought that they had meant it vignetted with a revolving back regardless of position. That makes a big difference. I have never used my revolving back outside of portrait or landscape, as, like you, I use the level on my tripod. Maybe a reversible back is in the books for me, on one of these technicals.

As for a Shen Hao or Chamonix, I haven't been able to find one that is sub-1000$ CAD, let alone a more comfortable price of sub-700$ CAD. I looked for some beater Canham DLC's, too. Lowest price I saw was 900$ CAD for one that needed obvious repairs. I saw a Technikardan that sold in the last few months for 800$ CAD, which also needed repairs and may have had bent standards. The Technikardan and Canham DLC are the dream: portable, versatile cameras of completely metal construction. For now, they're outside of my reach. I wish I had more to sell, really. One thing about being young is that you don't have any long-untouched goodies that you can dig out of the closet to pawn off for an extra buck here or there. I've got no more equipment to sell, only books.

[Alan Gales]

Late model entry level Cambo and Calumet monorail cameras go for next to nothing. Cheaper than a VX. Weight difference isn't much between them and a Wista or Toyo Technical field camera. They are just more bulky. I'm sure you could figure a way to pack one on a bicycle. I'd be more worried about transporting the tripod. Pick up a 210mm lens and away you go with plenty of movements and money left over for film.

[Wayne]

The only time I've noticed vignetting with my SP has been when I used significant movements. Probably 60% or more of my shooting is with a 135mm, and I rarely shoot at infinity, so maybe it wouldn't show up in those circumstances.

I'm curious why focal length has anything to do with this "problem" if its root cause is the rotating back.

Ha, no wonder I've never noticed this "vignetting". Its not that I haven't noticed, its because I haven't paid attention because there is no falloff from it as you would expect from typical vignetting. I would call it "cropping". Its a cutoff, not a falloff.

I looked at some recent negatives shot at close range with my 135, and you can even see it on those. These corners shown aren't from closeups but I see no difference in the cropping. So obviously this occurs even on shorter lenses.

The other reason I've never paid attention is because it doesn't matter. The cropped corners lie 100% outside of the projected area on either of the 2 Omega 4x5 carriers I own, and they make nice places to attach the clip for drying.

These are 100% a non-issue unless you are contact printing or using different carriers with full-frame openings.

i wonder what other entirely inconsequential things escape my notice in everyday life.

[senderoaburrido]

Late model entry level Cambo and Calumet monorail cameras go for next to nothing. Cheaper than a VX. Weight difference isn't much between them and a Wista or Toyo Technical field camera. They are just more bulky. I'm sure you could figure a way to pack one on a bicycle. I'd be more worried about transporting the tripod. Pick up a 210mm lens and away you go with plenty of movements and money left over for film.

That's actually what I have right now. I've got a Cambo SCX. Very not portable because of its tremendous profile. The weight could be manageable. If I could get the damn standards off, it would be extremely portable.

Someone told me, in another thread, that the standards should be able to slide off the rail. I recently updated that post to no response. There is a knob that I should be able to loosen, which would allow me to pop the end cap off. The knob unscrews without popping out completely, leaving the plastic rail cap attached. Not sure how else to remove the cap and slide the standards off. It's not mentioned in the camera's manual, and there are no videos or illustrative pictures that I could find.

[Wayne]

Here is the same corner of the negative on the right above, in the lower half of my Omega carrier with the sleeve removed. I've pulled the top edge into the frame so you can see that the top of the cropped corner doesn't show. The left edge of the negative is also hard against the left side guides, showing that the cropped area clearly doesn't appear AT ALL. This is with the top of the carrier off; with the top on its possible even a sliver more more of the edges are covered up making it even more of a non-issue.

[Alan Gales]

That's actually what I have right now. I've got a Cambo SCX. Very not portable because of its tremendous profile. The weight could be manageable. If I could get the damn standards off, it would be extremely portable.

Someone told me, in another thread, that the standards should be able to slide off the rail. I recently updated that post to no response. There is a knob that I should be able to loosen, which would allow me to pop the end cap off. The knob unscrews without popping out completely, leaving the plastic rail cap attached. Not sure how else to remove the cap and slide the standards off. It's not mentioned in the camera's manual, and there are no videos or illustrative pictures that I could find.

I had a Cambo Master once. On that camera you unscrewed the knob (it did not pop off) and pulled the rail apart into two pieces.

[Noah A]

Yeah, I called it mechanical vignetting because that's what I've heard it called elsewhere on this forum. But it's basically cropped corners. From what I understand the toyos do not have the problem when the back is in landscape or portrait mode, at 0 or 90 degrees. The Wista has it all the time regardless of the back position. Although the extent of the clipped corners depends on the focal length and also on lens movements.

But as I've been saying, it's not an issue for some (or most) people. It doesn't really show up at all under 150mm. I found it annoying at 150 and 210mm, but I really try to compose very carefully in-camera and I don't like to crop more than necessary.

It's also a non-issue if you make analog prints or use a flatbed or imacon/hasselblad scanner, since the negative carrier will likely crop it out. But I drum scan my negatives, and I'd have to crop as much as 1/8 inch on all sides (or 1/4 inch off of both ends if I decided I wanted to keep the full height of my neg).

This is a typical example shot with a 210.

[senderoaburrido]

I had a Cambo Master once. On that camera you unscrewed the knob (it did not pop off) and pulled the rail apart into two pieces.

Does it separate in the middle of the rail, as per the green arrows, or does the seam rung lengthwise and you pull the top half of the rail from the bottom? Right now the knob has been unscrewed, and nothing budges. I gave a gentle tug both ways.

Here's the knob unscrewed.

This is the knob end of the rail.

The opposite side.

This is a typical example shot with a 210.

That's much less terrible than it sounded. It's not like there's anything very important lurking in that tiny bit of corner.

[Alan Gales]

Does it separate in the middle of the rail, as per the green arrows, or does the seam rung lengthwise and you pull the top half of the rail from the bottom? Right now the knob has been unscrewed, and nothing budges. I gave a gentle tug both ways.

The Master rail separated in the middle of the rail as per your green arrows. You should be able to see a seam. The knob turns a screw that threads into the opposite rail piece. There are also two pins in the rail that fit into two holes on the other rail if I remember correctly. It should just pull apart after the knob completely unthreads the screw. Maybe it's just stuck.