Wista RF/SP/VX comparison- Is there something I'm missing?

[senderoaburrido]

So I've read the spec sheets for each, and here is what I understand - RF & SP have the micro-movements in the back, the RF has a rangefinder unit embedded in it, and the VX is stripped of everything but the necessities. Now, I want to make the jump to a technical camera for the sake of portability. I've been looking at the Toyo 45A, and the Wista series. The latter seems to accommodate more movements than the Toyo, and so I'm leaning towards it. RF's are outside my budget, but I've seen a few SP completed sales from months ago that are juuuuust within my budget.

Although I'd like an SP, I'm wondering if the micro-focusing back is worth the addition of somewhere between two and four hundred US dollars. There are dirt cheap VX's out there, and I'd be completely satisfied with one if it turned out that the micro-focusing wasn't that important. Is there anything I missed? If the RF or SP have extra movements, like drop where the other two don't, then I may just have to go back to saving. In fact, the presence of drop is confusing. None of the spec sheets say it has front drop, though one page mentioned that you can "drop out" the bottom. Can someone please elaborate on that?

[lecarp]

All the Wista cameras should have from drop.
Drop the bed and tilt the lens panel back to make it parallel to the back, use the rise to position the lens.
As far as usefulness of the micro-focus, that depends on the type of photography you do.
Hope that helps

[senderoaburrido]

As far as usefulness of the micro-focus, that depends on the type of photography you do.
Hope that helps

I assume that would be more important for macro, as tiny movements can significantly shift the depth of field forward or backward. Is that correct? To be frank, I don't understand what the spec sheets mean by "micro-focus". If I wanted to shift the depth of field, I could just as easily move the front standard a smidge back or forward, no?

I'm looking for a jack of all trades that is portable. I do portraiture most, and then architectural/urban landscapes second most. Dunno' if those would require this feature.

[B.S.Kumar]

Here is a comparison of the Wista metal field cameras:



Note that "Micro-Focus" is actually achieved by using both the "Micro-Swing" knobs in tandem. It is not very easy to maintain the same degree of movement on both sides, and should be used carefully.

There is no one camera that can do it all - which is why there are many kinds of cameras - for many kinds of photographers. As you get more experienced with LF photography, you will understand why some movements are easier done at the rear of the camera than the front. Focusing with the front changes the distance between the lens and the subject, altering perspective and magnification. These are magnified when doing close-up photography. Monorail cameras are best for such photography.

Kumar

[Noah A]

I guess it depends on what you're shooting, but I started with a VX and I loved it. If you need micro swing or micro focus, then it sounds like a monorail would be better anyway.

But it sounds like you're looking to simplify things by moving to a technical camera, and the VX is the simplest option. It actually took me a while to find one, I didn't want the extra bells and whistles of the SP and definitely didn't want the RF due to the extra size and complexity.

My only complaint about the VX was that it has no direct lens fall. You can, of course, drop the bed since the VX does have rear tilt. But it's a bit more cumbersome than a direct movement. The Toyo fields do have some lens fall, but at the expense of not as much rise. So you'd need to decide what's more important to you.

My one other complaint was that the rotating back does tend to vignette the corners of the frame, especially with longer lenses. It's been a while now, but from what I remember this was visible at 150mm and pretty bad with 210mm. My technika does this too, but not nearly as much. It's not a huge issue but if you like to print full-frame it can be a problem. I've never used a toyo but from what I understand, they don't have this issue.

As a side note, I now use a Master Technika 2000, and I've never used the back movements at all. I don't think I've ever used rear tilt or swing on a camera except as a demonstration while teaching a workshop, but obviously your style and type of photography may require these movements so that's something you need to decide.

But if you don't use back movements (other than maybe some tilt, which the VX has), then by all means, I'd save the money and go for the VX.

[mike rosenlof]

I own the SP, two of them actually, long story.

As I understand it, the micro swing feature is basically a geared rear swing. It's *really* intended to use one side or the other to get parallelism and not both together for focus.

I like the SP a lot. I've used the micro swing rarely, but it's nice when you use it. The regular back swing is fine too. The GG is nice and bright, the locks lock when they're supposed to and unlock easily too. The VX omits the micro swing and I think has a different method to attach the back. I'm sure it's very nice to use, and a bit lighter than the SP.

There's a good chance I'll put one of them up for sale before too long. I *really* don't need two of them! I'm just not shooting 4x5 that much. I've moved bigger.

[senderoaburrido]

My only complaint about the VX was that it has no direct lens fall. You can, of course, drop the bed since the VX does have rear tilt. But it's a bit more cumbersome than a direct movement. The Toyo fields do have some lens fall, but at the expense of not as much rise. So you'd need to decide what's more important to you.

My one other complaint was that the rotating back does tend to vignette the corners of the frame, especially with longer lenses. It's been a while now, but from what I remember this was visible at 150mm and pretty bad with 210mm. My technika does this too, but not nearly as much. It's not a huge issue but if you like to print full-frame it can be a problem. I've never used a toyo but from what I understand, they don't have this issue.

...

But if you don't use back movements (other than maybe some tilt, which the VX has), then by all means, I'd save the money and go for the VX.

I like using back movements to subtly play with perspective, both in portraits and the urban shots. What discouraged me from looking at a Toyo is that the Toyo 4x5 technicals have half as much swing (8 degrees vs. Wista's 15 degrees), back and front, and significantly reduced lateral shift (7mm vs Wista's 40mm) for approximately the same price used.

To be honest, I haven't really played much with rise or fall so far. Only in a few shots. Tilts and swings are a lot more obvious in their utility to me, be it back or front. I'd like to learn where and when rise and fall is appropriate, as I'm clearly missing a piece of important technique in eschewing them.

This vignetting you're describing is very off-putting. That added versatility is useless if there's noticeable, enlargement-affecting vignetting. Do you mean to say that when the back is rotated to the horizontal rather than vertical orientation, it causes problems? Or does this issue appear with both configurations? I've become accustomed to my Cambo monorail's rotating back, as it's a much more convenient than holding the camera on its side, as you would a 35mm. I'm not sure I want a technical with which I cannot reliably use a rotating back.

It is not obvious to me which features or which versatility is most worth sacrificing in the purchase of a technical. I simply want something sub 1000$ CDN that is significantly more portable than my Cambo monorail; a camera that I could take on a long trip, or a hike.

[Wayne]

I've had an SP for 25 years. I bought it in part because of that way cool micro-swing, which I've probably used 5 times in all those years.

[B.S.Kumar]

I like using back movements to subtly play with perspective, both in portraits and the urban shots.

To be honest, I haven't really played much with rise or fall so far. Only in a few shots. Tilts and swings are a lot more obvious in their utility to me, be it back or front. I'd like to learn where and when rise and fall is appropriate, as I'm clearly missing a piece of important technique in eschewing them.

This vignetting you're describing is very off-putting. That added versatility is useless if there's noticeable, enlargement-affecting vignetting. Do you mean to say that when the back is rotated to the horizontal rather than vertical orientation, it causes problems? Or does this issue appear with both configurations? I've become accustomed to my Cambo monorail's rotating back, as it's a much more convenient than holding the camera on its side, as you would a 35mm. I'm not sure I want a technical with which I cannot reliably use a rotating back.

It is not obvious to me which features or which versatility is most worth sacrificing in the purchase of a technical. I simply want something sub 1000$ CDN that is significantly more portable than my Cambo monorail; a camera that I could take on a long trip, or a hike.

a. Before spending any money on a camera, I suggest using the Cambo you have, and noting down the movements you might require, for the images that you make. This will help you narrow down the choice of camera.

b. I have shot with all the Wista cameras with a Betterlight scan back, using lenses from 65mm to 360mm, using rise and shift movements extensively. I cannot recall any instance where there was vignetting. Perhaps other members who have used Wistas can comment on this.

c. For 1000 CAD (85,000 JPY), you could buy most any Wista you want. The "lack" of front swing on the far cheaper N and D models is easily overcome by the generous rear swing, and the "Micro-Swing" on the D. This is an often overlooked and extremely useful feature.

Kumar

[Noah A]

... I have shot with all the Wista cameras with a Betterlight scan back, using lenses from 65mm to 360mm, using rise and shift movements extensively. I cannot recall any instance where there was vignetting. Perhaps other members who have used Wistas can comment on this. ...

Don't the better light scan backs have something like a 3x4 inch scanning area? If so, you would never see the vignetting. I've read about it elsewhere so I'm not making it up, but it might not bother some people. Do a quick search and I'm sure you'll find more posts about it (other than mine). It's just in the corners, it doesn't affect the image quality outside of the area that's blocked by the rotating back assembly. It just looks like the corners of the image are cut off slightly. It's not too bad with a 150 but with a 210 I definitely had to crop more than I would have liked. I like to compose in the camera and crop as little as possible. With lenses shorter than 150 there is no issue. And I don't mean to harp on this, it's not all that big of a deal and my current Technika does the same thing, although to a lesser extent.

...I'd like to learn where and when rise and fall is appropriate, as I'm clearly missing a piece of important technique in eschewing them. ...

You generally use lens rise and fall (rise is more common) to keep vertical lines vertical. I'm sure you've noticed that if you point a camera up, say to include the top of a tall building, that the vertical lines will converge. Lens rise lets you include the top of the building without tilting the camera, so the lines will remain vertical. Lens fall is often used for the same reason, but often it's used when you're shooting from an elevated position. I use it often when shooting urban landscapes from bridges or tall buildings. Of course, rear rise and fall can be used for the same reasons, but most field cameras don't have any.

Only you can say how much camera movement you need. B.S. Kumar made a great suggestion, note how much and what kind of movements you're using with your combo then make sure to get a field camera that can do what you need.