moderate wide angle for 4x5 architecture

[alex sjoeberg]

This forum is definitely helpfull to increase one’s understandind of photography matters. Thanks to any of you who could help or having already faced such choice for a new lens in a new range !

I use 4x5 (Gandolfi Variant2, BTW very efficient tool especially for movements).
As I get more and more involved in architecture assignments, I am thinking of getting a “moderate” wide angle lens. (Usually shooting with lenses close to “normal” as a strong esthetic preference). But : new assignment coming will suppose inside shots with little room for easy composition. And as I will have to be carefull to shoot not too abstract pictures, I do have to consider “real” wide angle lenses. Which I am not used to. (Already rented a 120. Liked it but not wide enough).
So, I think my choice will be between 110 and 90 mm lenses.

Schneider 110 sounds very appealling (f5.6, no need of center filter, lot of coverage, etc). And I think it wouldn't be too far from that “esthetic preference”. But : still a bit expensive (!), and maybe risky as a non “safe option” for architecture cause still not wide enough (?). (It also may be a good investment).

On the other hand, I understand that choosing a 90 lens (super angulon mc, grandagon n or nikon sw) I should consider the brighter ones. (Still have to check if it wouldn't give that “too much view in the frame” that I am afraid of). 90s would also be less expensive and / or easier to find on the second hand market. But : here comes also few more questions !
- Already using Symmar s mc lenses, would a nikon f8 sw match for render ?
- If I choose a schneider SA f5.6 (or grandagon f6.8 or f4.5), wouldn't it be too heavy or bulky (rear element) for my Gandolfi ?
- Will I definitely need center filters for any of them ? or recessed lens board ?

Also if I go for a 90, in which order should I make preferences between all of them ? (Grandagon N f6.8 or f4, Super Angulon MC f5.6 or f8, Nikon f8 … )

Thank you for any point of view that I am sure will enlight this step further into picture making … Cheers to all of you !

[Juergen Sattler]

Hi Alex, if the 120 you tested wasn't wide enough, then the 110 won't do you no good either - it is not that dramatically wider. I think you will end up with a 90mm. I would recommend the Grandagon 6.8 (I own that lens and am very happy with it) because it is reasonably bright on the GG (better then the f:8s) and not as heavy and big as the f:4 and f5.6. Depending on your camera some of the faster lenses might not even fit - their rear elements are pretty big and do not fit in all of the folder cameras. A lot of people also like the Nikon f:8 - I have no experience with it and can't tell how much darker it would be compared to the Grandagon.

Juergen

[Ben Calwell]

Alex,

I use a Nikon 90mm f8 and can recommend it highly. Although it has a small maximum aperture, I've never found it to be a problem, even when shooting indoors.

[alex sjoeberg]

Thank you Juergen
… about the 120 : what I meant is that I was roughly lacking of coverage. I liked that lens quite well (was a Schneider don't remenber if it was the super symmar or the apo one). Anyway, I was shooting in a huge retail store. And I felt I already had “expressive perspectives” with that lens when not “frontal” … This is precisely what keeps me wondering about purchasing a 90 mm lens. (Really not a big fan of those “expressive persp”). Maybe I'll have to, and then crop the sheet ?
Would a 110 be a nonsense as MAIN wide angle lense for architecture ?

[Ralph Barker]

The 110 SS XL won't give you the extreme wide-angle look, and neither will the 90mm in most circumstances. I think it's a matter of balancing between angle of view and coverage. I find both focal lengths useful at different times. The 110mm has become one of my most-used lenses on 4x5, as the image circle will (just, with no movements) cover 8x10.

If you're unsure, and can't try the 110 in advance, I'd suggest getting a good 90 to start and then go from there. Alternatively, you can check angle of view when you're shooting by using a framing aid. That often will tell you whether a lens you're considering will suffice.

As to the rendition issue of different brands, I think you'll find it to be less of an issue than rumored - unless you're doing product or fashion work where exact color matching is often more important. But, opinions differ on the subject, of course.

[Gem Singer]

Hi Alex,

Stop agonizing over the selection of which wide angle lens to get for architectural work. Sell your automobile, take a second mortgage on your house, and purchase both a Schneider 80XL for interior work and a Schneider 110XL for exterior work. You will then have the best lenses for the job and will never need to worry about it again.

Can't get along without an automobile? No house to mortgage? The Nikkor f8 90SW, with it's 235mm image circle, is a good compromise.

[Alan Davenport]

I have a Caltar-branded, multicoated 90mm f/8 Super Angulon. Watching for one of those might be a good way to save some dough if that's a concern, since the store-branded ones seem to sell for half of what it costs with the Schneider name on it.

I don't feel the need for a center filter on a 90mm lens (for 4x5) though some do. As for needing a faster lens such as the f/5.6 SA, I don't find it that much of a problem. Certainly it's a bit easier to determine critical focus using a faster lens, but with a 4X loupe, a good darkcloth and patience it all works just fine.

[alex sjoeberg]

Thank you so much to everyone. Quite a lot of clues.
I'll go for a 90 first (Schneider SA f5.6 MC or Rodenstock Grandagon N, f6.8 or 4.5). I guess the brighter the better for image circle …
And I'd better stay with same coatings for the scan and print issues.
Maybe later rebuild my whole set of lenses with brand new ones … depending of successfull assignements coming.
(No doubt new questions will be coming soon).
And I'll be glad as well to report considerations using a 90 mm for new compositions avoiding too much “expressive perspectives” !
Cheers to all of you.

Alex

[Bob Fowler]

I have a 90mm f/8 Ilex-Calumet Wide Field Caltar in a Seikosha shutter. It will cover 5X7, so it has plenty of room for movements on 4X5. Damn nice lens too...

[Brian Ellis]

If you're relatively new to LF architectural photography you might pick up a copy of "Photographing Buildings Inside and Out" by Norman McGrath. Amazon probably has used ones available. It's a good book and has a chapter devoted to the equipment he uses. FWIW, and it isn't worth much since I don't do a lot of interior work, I thought photographers who do use lenses a good bit wider than 90mm, e.g. things in the 58mm - 65mm range. 90 is a nice size for exteriors, I used a 90mm F5.6 Super Angulon for quite a while and have replaced it only in the last year with the 80mm SS XL, but I'm not sure either would be wide enough for a lot of interior work.