Nikon SW 90 vs Schneider 90 XL for 4x5?

[Daniel Geiger]

I currently own a Schneider Super-Angulon (non-XL) 90 mm f8 with an image circle of 216 mm on the new ArcaSwiss F-line 4x5. This is my first 90 and have only been shooting LF for a few months now. I have run it out of coverage several times, particularly with strong near/far differences (sea turtle in front on beach, palm trees/horizon in back: limited tilt) plus some front or rear rise [no "fall" on Arca]. This type of images is why I started LF and will do it quite a bit more in the future. I like the focal length. I consider upgrading and ponder two contenders:

- Nikon SW 90 with image circle of 235 mm, no center filter [A Kerry Thalmann future classic]

- Schneider Super-Angulon XL 90 mm with image circle of 259 mm, requires center filter.

I noticed the filter diameter differences (67 vs 95 mm) and the price (~900 vs ~2,000 with center filter; according to lens table on LF forum). I trust the max apperture difference (f8 vs 5.6) will be balanced out due to the center filter so I trust the screen images will be approximately equally bright.

I trust I won't ever have any worries anymore with the Schneider, but the need for a center filter is a bit annoying. I don't think I will move up to 5x7 format. But is it utter overkill for 4x5? Any comments by folks who have been in a similar situation in the past? One thing I can't figure out from the specs is whether there are limitations with the Schneider of using Lee filters (grad ND).

Thanks for your wisdom.

[Andre Noble]

Sell it, get the Nikon.

[Ted Harris]

Why are you so sure younwill need a center filter? You might but I doubt it. I can't remember when I needed a center filter with a 90 and Idon't even use one with a 75 most of the time.

See if you can try the lens out without a center filter and then make your choice.

[Herb Cunningham]

I have used a Nikon 90mm f4.5 for a long time on 4x5, never ran out of coverage, with arca f line and a lot of rise.

I have the 72mm SA XL and don't use a center filter on b/w, haven't done any color with it.

[Eric Woodbury]

I don't use center filters with BW either. And I don't do color. I'm not missing them. I don't think f5.6 will do you much good except to focus. Get a better dark cloth for that.

As far as 90s go, I have the 72mm SA XL and the 110mm. This is for 57 which I thought I would never do either ... that was 15 years ago. Sold the 90.

[Gem Singer]

Hi Daniel,

Since you are considering the Schneider 90XL, It may be a good idea to consider the Schneider 110XL instead. It is smaller, lighter weight, around the same price as the 90XL, and you will never run out of coverage for 4X5. You might also discover that there is no need to use a center filter with the 110XL.

[Robert Jaques]

I purchased the Nikon SW 90 F8 a year ago and have no regrets. The 67mm filter and not having to use a center filter were two of the reasons I purchased this one. I have not found a situation were I've ran out of movements. Razor Sharp !!!

[Paul Droluk]

I have used both Nikon 90's (4.5 & 8) on our Fotoman 617 camera, which has an image diagonal of 177mm. I can assure you that if you shoot transparency material (Velvia-Provia etc.) you will DEFINATELY need a center filter. That's why I ultimately switched to the Schneider 90XL... it has a Schneider made specific CF. Nikon implies no CF is requited... NOT TRUE. One of our customers bought a Heliopan (3X) for his 90/4.5 Nikon on 617 format, and it still wasn't enough correction on transparency material.

[Daniel Geiger]

Thanks for all the opinions and experiences:

Eric: I have a blackjacket hybrid dark cloth on order (see View Camera's latest issue), to replace the horse blanket.

Re 90 vs 110, I do like the wide angle feel of the 90 quite a bit. These are roughly 28 vs. 35 mm in SLR terms, and I either use the 50 or the 28, hardly ever the 35 (currently don't even own a 35), so the 110 equivalent is not my style. Weight is not an issue.

Now the center filter question. I do shoot color (Velvia-Provia: Paul you hit it on the nail on the head). I have noticed light fall-off with my current Schneider Angulon (non-XL); when I bought the lens, the people at the store didn't think I needed a center filter, but the LF-forum table lists one. In general, light fall-off diminishes as you close the diaphragm. So I'd guess that fully open, a specific CF is under-compensating, should be optimized about 2-3 f-stops down from fully open, and will over-compensate when stopped down all the way. Is that true? Is there any data on that?

Thanks again for the insight!

[Roger Scott]

I use a Nikon 90mm/f8 with 4x5 and haven't found any need for a centre filter on transparencies at the apertures I most commonly use (f19-f45). With focussing at f8, yes the corners are darker (part of that is my fresnel lens) so if you're shooting wide open a centre filter might help although light falloff becomes minimal by around f16 which is where the lens starts becoming optimal anyway. If you need to use larger apertures you're probably better off with a different lens. On 617 or 5x7 it will become more necessary due to the increased angle near the edges of these formats. In your 35mm SLR terms a 90mm lens on a 5x7 camera is equivalent to about 22mm.

Regards,