what do things like "Apo Sironar-S" and "super angulon" "SW", "SWD", "grandagon" "Super-SymmarH M", "w", etc.. mean?
im lookin for a very sharp 135mm
what do things like "Apo Sironar-S" and "super angulon" "SW", "SWD", "grandagon" "Super-SymmarH M", "w", etc.. mean?
im lookin for a very sharp 135mm
Grandagon is Rodenstock's designation for wide angle lenses. Sironar is their designation for mid to long lenses. Sironars are currently made in two lines; the S and N. The S line will likely be slightly sharper and have a larger image circle.
http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/future.htm
In Kerry Thalmann's future classics site he recommends the APO Sironar-S in the 135mm focal length.
mostly this is just the manufacturer's name forthe lens and may sort of describe the type of basic lens design being usedas well. "Apo" is short for apochromatic , which means thatthe lens design is corrected to focus all visible light on the same plane. I don't know how much you know aboutthe physical properties of light, but different colors of light are essentially forms of energy that have slightly different wave lengths. For a betterexpalanation find a copy of Richard Feynmann's "Q.E.D." and read the first two or three chapters.
Basically any modern 135mm lens is going to be very , very sharp. "sharpness' is bascially a combination of two measurable attributes; resolution and contrast. Just looking at these, You would be hard pressed to see any difference between a Nikon, Rodenstock or Schneider large format lens but you'll see a difference in other areas. it starts to become a personal preference. I prefer the "look' of images made with Rodenstock and Nikon large format lenses.
May be we could add some linguistic notes.
W means "wide" and SW "super wide" this is English although German uses 'Weitwinkle' for wide angle, so W is very German as well.
In German optical products, "S" like in S-planar® or Apo-Sironar-S® is often used to denote something special. "Spezial" exist in German but S might more likely mean Sonder. Sondermodell, a special model.
Symmar® is a strange registered brand name. I'm pretty sure that Summar® was already registered by somebody else than Schneider (guess which company, no, not in LF ;-). In German the "y" is pronounced like the umlaut-u "ü" or like the French "u" (not : iou ;-) If you add that "S" before a wovel is pronounced like 'Z' in German, you get someting... yes, really Veird ;-);-)
Jack,
I think that part of your confusion is caused by the fact that some manufacturers make a lens in the same focal length in both a standard formulation and a wide angle formulation. For example, the wide angle 120 Schneider Super Angulon and the 120 Super Symmar HM.
You would be hard- pressed to be able to tell the difference between images made with any of the standard 135's from the major manufacturers. Schneider, Rodenstock, Nikon, Fuji all make excellent sharp lenses in the 135 focal length. My suggestion is to look for the best deal you can get on the latest model 135 that fits your budget, and don't be confused by the letter designation.
i think of a lot of the model names (symmar, sironar, grandagon, angulon, etc.) like car model names: mustang, eldorado, civic, corolla, etc..
they're brand names owned by a company, and the company chooses to recycle the name over the years, even though the products themselves change. the names only mean something when you get familiar with the company's products. the word "corolla" doesn't tell you much by itself, but if you've ever had one, you'll be pretty sure that the 2006 corolla won't be a monster truck. for example.
Because I'm an iconoclast I'll break down the brand/model / letter system for you:
Brand name: $500.00
Model name: $250.00
Each letter : $250.00
Check it out in any magazine ad.
When you buy a small format lens, say from Nikon for a Nikon 35 mm camera, the only parameters that matter are the focal length and the maximum aperture. (OK, it has gotten more complicated recently with various kinds of manual versus several types of autofocus lenses). Naturally you will have no concern about whether the lens is suitable for 35 mm film.
Things are more complicated in the LF world since there are several formats and the cameras are made by different companies than the lenses. To know whether a lens will work with your format (e.g., 4x5, 5x7, 8x10, ...), you have to know the coverage of the lens -- the diameter of the circle of quality image that the lens makes. Different designs have different coverages. One design type might work well for a 150 mm lens for 4x5, but have insufficient coverage for 8x10. Another 150 mm of a different design type will have enough coverage for 8x10. This second type will also work for 4x5, but would generally not be used because of the higher weight and cost compared to the first design type.
Understanding the design types is helpful in selecting your lenses. For normal and longer focal length lenses, normal coverage, called "wide" coverage, lenses will work well. For short focal lengths for your format, a "super-wide" coverage lens will either be needed or allow more movements. Hence the common symbols "W" and "SW".
The several manufacturers have brand names that they apply to lenses of the same design type, regardless of focal length.
The plasmat design has "wide" coverage. These types include the Nikkor-W, Fuji-W and Fuji-CMW, the various Rodenstock Sironars, and most of the Schneider Symmar types (Symmar, Symmar-S, Apo-Symmar). To confuse things, Schneider has started using the Symmar name for some other designs: Super-Symmar-HM and Super-Symmar-XL. The have wider coverage than the non-Super Symmars.
The most common super-wide coverage lens type is made as the Nikkor-SW, Fuji-SW and Fuji-SWD, Rodenstock Grandagon types, and Schneider Super-Angulon types.
The Tessar (Zeiss trademark) design is made as the Nikkor-M and Schneider Xenar. These have normal (i.e., less than wide) coverage and work best in longer than normal focal lengths. They can be used as normal lenses (for a particular format) but will not support as extensive of movements such as front rise as the plasmat designs.
With some understanding of the common lens designs, the series names can help you understand the best uses of a lens.
The book "A History of the Photographic Lens" by Rudolf Kingslake is an excellent for a basic understanding of the popular lens designs.
You don't have to understand all of this to be a good LF photography. Browsing the archives or asking questions can get you recommendations of which lenses are best choices for a particular purposes, e.g., for a 135 mm lens for 4x5.
If you are sure that you want 135 mm, then your choice should be one of the plasmats. I don't know of any Super-Wide types in this focal length, though such exist in similar focal lengths such as 120 mm. The Tessar designs will have at best borderline coverage. As Eugene says, all of the plasmat types from the major manufacturers will be sharp. However, the latest plasmat designs have a bit more coverage than the older ones. This will be useful for 135 mm since a 135 mm plasmat design won't have lots of excess coverage for 4x5. So you might want to look for the latest versions, which would be the Apo-Sironar-S and the Apo-Symmar-L.
Michael - Great post! Only one minor correction, on your very last point - there is no 135 in the Apo-Symmar-L line. Schneider stopped offering that focal length when it phased out the Apo-Symmars. The only 135 with 75 degree coverage is the Apo-Sironar-S.
As an historical note, many of the older lens tradanames were based on Greek roots. "Tessar" suggests a lens with four elements. "Hypergon" is a lens with excessive angle. "Planar" is a flat field lens. "Artar" implies perfection. "Heliar" is named after the sun. This continues in lenses which have "gon" (for angle) in their name.
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