What is '"Art Photography"

[Kirk Gittings]

Ralph,

Probably not, though I do think that everyone, concious or not, carries around an aesthetic philosophy that informs their work in one way or another. As an instructor at art schools I am expected to have a position and be able to articulate and defend it. Is it ultimately bull, of course, and worse than that it can be an intellectual game. But I find it useful when teaching, giving public talks and being interviewed to have some clear idea of where I am coming from.

Interestingly it was partly Fred Picker who helped me see the value in these kinds of discussions. His newsletters were always sprinkled with quotes and references to aesthetic ideas. Also I had some conversations with Ansel Adams in the last years of his life and he continued to be interested in the evolving aesthetic of photography's philosophical ideas. Remember the heartfelt positions of the f64 Group in oposition to the Pictorialists?

[Brian Vuillemenot]

I think it's more of a functional definition- photography as an end in itself is art. If it's for any other reason, it's not art.

[Struan Gray]

My own photography, and my own aesthetic and intellectual preferences, tend to be most in sympathy with the late stages of modernism (or earlier pre-romantic humanism, but that's a another story). I *like* a lot of current 'Art Photography', but I *love* relatively little of it. I think the reason I like so much of it is that it inhabits a world of ideas and concepts that I find intriguing in itself, even if the specific works or the specific ideas they express do not make any lasting impression. Consuming such art is a continuing process, much more like reading and discussing reviews and op-ed articles throughout the year than starting War and Peace and not eating or sleeping until you finish. The works I love have a more direct and instinctive - though not necessarily immediate - appeal, and often it is harder to explain why they engross me so much.

I think Kirk is better placed than most of us to say what 'art photography' is. For me though it is photography that conciously attempts to do more than depict. It also has a historical awareness and a desire to express something new, or in a new way, that are absent from 'Fine Art' photography, and which for better or worse make it conform to the ideals and norms of the wider art world rather than the guild-like confines of the Pale of photography.

[Oren Grad]

Kirk -

I don't bother.

Cheers...

[Jay DeFehr]

I think that Duchamp's contribution was to liberate art from craft, just as photography liberated painting from realism. I understand how one could resist this notion, especially if one has a stake in craft, as many painters did in realism, but you can't unring a bell. Weston's Commode, and Duchamp's urinal have both been said to elevate the mundane to the status of art. Weston relied on craft to support his idea, and Duchamp on pure intellect. Duchamp's urinal transcended craft, while Weston embraced it. Which is a more pure artistic expression, I leave for each of us to decide for himself. For the record, I don't believe that art and craft are mutually exclusive any more than I believe that painting and realism are, but neither do I believe that art is dependant upon craft. The fact that many people have no basis for understanding of art in the absence of craft might be one reason that so many are so quick to dismiss Duchamp's acheivements.

[Ralph Barker]

Jay - for the sake of discussion, let's say I'm having difficulty with your Duchamp-Weston comparison. If Duchamp's art truly transcended craft, where did the urinal itself originate? Wouldn't truly craft-transcendant art have left the performance artist peeing in the wind? For a painter, is the art in the waving of the brush in the air, and the craft the adding of paint and canvas?

[Jay DeFehr]

Ralph, Duchamp's art was in selection and presentation, not in production, like sampling in hip-hop music.

Jay

[Ralph Barker]

Ah, I get it. He outsourced the craft element. ;-)

[Steve Williams_812]

Duchamp chose his readymade. Jeff Koons outsources. As Jay points out Duchamp opened a door, rung a bell that cannot be unrung. He rendered craft optional. I think about that sometimes when I have the 8x10 set up, the spot meter working, recording zones....

this link has a good essay on the Elegant Pisser.


http://www.primitivebirdgroup.co.nz/mxart2.html

[John Kasaian]

Kirk,

I'm still reeling from all the concepts posted on the "what isn't art" thread, but I'll take a stab at it:
Art Photography is Photography with the intent to commit Art;-)