I wouldn't characterize the comments here as "casting aspersions". The questions seem to be legitimate, which doesn're mean that there aren't good answers. No one is saying that the Aztek scanners aren't terrific scanners.
I wouldn't characterize the comments here as "casting aspersions". The questions seem to be legitimate, which doesn're mean that there aren't good answers. No one is saying that the Aztek scanners aren't terrific scanners.
“You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know
Let me just say I have not issues whatsoever with Aztek but sure I think it's silly not to mention any ways to improve the scanner because somebody feelings can be hurt. Nobody is forced to read the posts or even open the scanner cover. When Andy tested the new PMTs (thanks Andy!) and he shared it with the forum I think it did a good thing. I even got in touch with Hamamatsu sales rep to get an idea of the prices in quantity. Wherever I found to be helpful with other owners I will share it. It's up to then to use the information or ignore it.
Regarding the consolidation of the boards, thank or blame Howtek. They were the one doing it, starting with the HR8000 or 5500, wherever you want to call it. To me a mistake. God knows how much Aztek will ask for a board. 6, 7, 8K ? To those Premier owners reading this, I would keep an eye on the those HR8000 coming to the market. You will shake your head if you see the HR8000 and the Premier open side by side. They are gold even in parts. Same message to the 4500 owners. D4000 share 90% of the hardware. If a card breaks just replace it with the similar card in the 4000 but keeping your firmware. Think that you can save some money and help other members in the forum sharing the extra 4500 you are holding for parts.
You said Aztek spent millions with DPL development. Being involved with similar projects in the past I can not get close to those numbers, even if they hired a full time developer at 6 figures per year (dont see the need for it, based on the complexity). The PC, Visual C++ 6.0, and ImageGear API costs are in the few thousands range only. The base API, the one used to handle the drum scanners, was already developed by Howtek. It's a DLL file named HTSAI10.DLL and should be in your DPL installation directory. Nothing added. Check the date in the file. BTW, it was distributed with a free license to use. You can download it from here:
ftp://12.70.252.178/Onyx-RAD/Howtek/Tool%20Kit/
Do I have questions about the Premier? Of course. Most are related to the myth involving the machine. It's treated for some the 8th wonder of the world. To me, based on the hardware, it is a glorified HR8000 that may or may not produce better scans. If I am lucky enough I will get the opportunity to find an HR8000 and finally compare them to the screw.
But a picture is better than one thousand words. Here's a shot of the optical box base plate in the Premier.
On the left you can see 3 balls in a very simple way to support the part holding the main lens. On the right I placed a IKO linear stage for comparison purposes, similar to the one used in the 4000/4500/6500/7500(and very likely in the HR8000) scanners in same role. Although a less precise design, it could do the job decently for few years, unless of course, the diameter of balls is too close to the width of the openings used as rails and eventually the lens ends working too low and out of alignment and the focus mechanism getting extra stress. A different finish where the balls make better contact with the base and slightly bigger balls would last 20 years of intense use. I would also add some tape under the opening to avoid any metal debris ending on the pre-amp board.
Cost wise, a pack of 100 balls 1/4" in diameter would go for not more than 3 or 4 bucks. The linear stage could be over $100.
I am telling you, the "No expense spared" is hard to achieve business wise.
I'm sorry. I don't buy it. I have made a lot of great scans, I've compared them with other drum scanners and as far as I am concerned, the proof is in the pudding. I won't say there aren't any design flaws, I'm sure there are, but the thing works, and works excellently.
You are also asking me to believe that these people that I have been friends with for a decade, that have done everything they can to assist me over the years, are basically boldfaced liars.
This is like playing chess with a pigeon. The pigeon will knock all the pieces over, shit on the board and declare himself the winner. You say you don't have any problem with Aztek in one sentence and in the next you are "Premier owners who paid big bucks to Aztek for a scanner deserve some kind of break."
FWIW, I have gotten a lot of breaks from them. They have been more than generous. I have spent many hours with them on the phone going over every little thing that happened - for years and years. They never asked me for a cent.
Reverse engineering doesn't supply all the the answers. The patents may not show final versions. Premier's have been making incredible scans for a long time, and so has DPL. The results speak for themselves.
You're basically complaining about how the scanner should be set up. The difference is that Aztek actually did it, completed it, and got lots of them out the door. I'm sure your ideas would make it better here and there, maybe, but there is no benefit anywhere to what you are doing. They aren't making new scanners, so all it amounts to is bellyaching, about something which you are only seeing only part of.
If you came up with an idea, such as - if you put a piece of duct tape over here - it will make a better scan, and that helps everyone, great. But so far all you have done is suggest that the Premier isn't what it should be, that it doesn't deserve its place in the market. However, the scans show something different.
I really don't like this conversation. I don't want to be here. If we are just going to go back and forth, I'm not really interested.
Lenny
EigerStudios
Museum Quality Drum Scanning and Printing
"I really don't like this conversation. I don't want to be here. If we are just going to go back and forth, I'm not really interested."
For many owners of Howtek scanners, including me, Armando's comments and experimental work is very interesting. If you are not interested please feel free to ignore the information, and just shut up.
Thanks,
Sandy
For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at groups.io
[url]https://groups.io/g/carbon
Yea, the only problem is that a lot of is incorrect. It isn't "information", it's based on conjecture. It doesn't help making better scans,, and won't lead to a better scanner. So its just misleading data. I won't say he's deliberately trying to mislead anyone, I don't know him personally.Originally Posted by sanking
Tim and I stood up for Aztek, as they don't have a voice here. There's no reason that their scanner and software should be maligned by people with not enough information.
If I stood up here and started telling people that carbon wasn't very archival, or that it could't get a decent black, you'd correct me in a minute. Rightly so. I've been wrong, and you have, so have plenty of others. I spoke to Aztek about Armando. He apparently asked them a lot of questions that would have revealed proprietary information. Apparently, he didn't want to buy anything from them, they were unsure what he wanted and they cut it off. Much of what I've read in this thread is that the scanner doesn't deserve its place, the software isn't any good, everything is too expensive, and Aztek basically lied about everything.
The data doesn't match the results.
Lenny
EigerStudios
Museum Quality Drum Scanning and Printing
No, Lenny, that's not what this thread is about. It's about understanding these scanners. All too soon there won't be any official support for them, just as the other scanner companies have gone away or cut off most support. Understanding these machines is to the benefit of all of us that might use them. Armando has been asking serious questions, and they show a pretty good understanding of the issues involved. You see attacks that aren't there, you mis-characterize people's positions, and your response amounts to "Aztek...Good! Anyone that suggests that any aspect of their products or information could be improved upon...Bad!" That's a couple of steps below informed conjecture.
“You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know
I don't think Aztek is going to stop supporting the howtek models any time soon. I talked to them about this on the phone recently. They went to great lengths to make sure the old models were fully supported in the jump to x64 architecture with DPL8. If there was a time to drop support for them it would have been then, but they chose specifically to continue supporting them.
Further, the old models like the 4500 were also the best selling, and due to their longevity, are still a huge part of the service and support market for Aztek. Until the 4500s start kicking the bucket end masse, there is still money to be made in supporting them.
-Adam
I hope you're right!
“You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know
Lenny, you can think and say wherever you want but don't ever try to put words in my mouth. I never said Aztek lied about anything. I that was the case, believe me, I would say it directly. If you care to read my initial post, I was trying to let others know how easy is misunderstand the specs of a scanner due to the lack of technical knowledge or just an aggressive marketing. That's the polite version.
If you knowledge of the specs of the Premier where so poor at the time of the investment, which based on your posts I think it's today, that's is your problem. It's not my fault you did not ask the right questions or they did not tell you upfront. I still think they are good scanners, ie HR8000/5500/Premier, but are just that, scanners with good and bad designed parts. There's not such a thing as "perfect scanner". I have absolutely not regrets spending 4k in the Premier, even when the seller said it was broken, that's how confident I was. Based on the irrational arguments I am reading in your posts in a very defensive posture and how bitter you sound it seems you paid "a little bit more".
Regarding Aztek. I have no idea to who you talked to, not that I care. I purchased in the past at least two DPL licenses, both 7.86. One for the 4000 and one for the 7500. The Premier came already with a license. I can post images of the invoices. I also purchase other supplies like mylar, lubricants, etc. Not Kami, not fan of it. I also spoke to Evan by phone and more than once. Also have many email exchanges for years that I can post copy of, including sending me a missing page of the Service Manual. Last email I sent inquiring about the manufacturing of the optical box got no answer so I decided to open it and exam it by myself. Learned a lot.
In every and each of my statements in the posts regarding the scanners I try to explain the rational behind, many times accompanied by images. All gathered directly from the hardware.
All we are getting from you is "you're wrong" or "Aztek told me so and so", like a kid.
One thing for sure. I will share any bit of information that get in my hands regarding the scanners with other owners here in the forum whether you like it or not.
I let the forum members to judge for themselves who's the one distributing misinformation.
When Aztek says they spared no expense on the Premier, when they say they have a a certain number of bits, or whether they say they spent a large amount of money on the creation of their software, these are all things which you said could not be. That means they must be lying.
I'm not bitter, I'm not upset at what I paid for the scanner. I got a very nice deal from them, and its paid off, years ago. I have no regrets. I'm happy with the quality of my scans.
I'm not going to say you don't have a good question or two (I think you do), but a question and an answer aren't the same thing. I have also taken the optical box apart, it doesn't mean I know what I am doing. These folks are friends of mine. It doesn't feel right when someone suggests that they didn't produce what they said they did. They're good people, and a small family business vs some faceless corporation. When words like "glorified 8000" come up in the conversation its clear that there's an attack. Personally, I refuse to believe that they did nothing to the 8000, especially after they spent the time to outline a pile of things they did. Today they explained what they accomplished in the software, in this latest version. They succeeded at something they've wanted to do for a very long time with the CMS functionality... It means you can create your own CMS profiles for your film, and then modify scans a bit on top. It's very cool. Of course, you may not agree, maybe it doesn't exist at all...
Knock yourself out. I'm not trying to silence anyone. By your own admission you've taken on this project because you couldn't get the information out of Aztek. So, buyer beware...
I'm going there in a couple of weeks. I could probably ask them a question or two, and get an answer, if someone wants to PM me off line.
Lenny
EigerStudios
Museum Quality Drum Scanning and Printing
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks