New DPL Scanner software from Aztek for their drum scanners

[Rich14]

That's the point. Your case is the odd one out. Most of the rest of us can afford only one scanner, don't want to take it apart like you do, but just need it to work, and work excellently. I can upgrade for $900. I will when I'm ready, or when I get a bunch of scans to do. (I offered a Thanksgiving discount for forum members and, while I got a pile of friendly responses, I didn't get a single scan to do.)

However, update or not, I don't think you can compare Silverfast to DPL Pro. You have the main feature, the ability to make a custom CMS, all kinds of batch processing, with each piece of film at a different resolution if you want, etc. DPL is professional software, even if there are things we could imagine to make it better. I also think its too expensive, but it does work very well, and that's all I care about.

Lenny

Hi Lenny,

I don't want to hijack this thread with a related subject and will take this to another message if you want -

Just wanted to ask about your comment on not getting any takers for your scan discount offer. Do you have any handle on the overall "health" of the market for drum scans?

Thanks,

Rich

[Lenny Eiger]

Hi Lenny,

I don't want to hijack this thread with a related subject and will take this to another message if you want -

Just wanted to ask about your comment on not getting any takers for your scan discount offer. Do you have any handle on the overall "health" of the market for drum scans?

Thanks,

Rich

You're right - this should be another conversation, perhaps in Business, or the Lounge... however, I think the overall health of the industry is at an all-time low. I'm not sure its coming back up... at least not in the current form...

Lenny

[onnect17]

That's the point. Your case is the odd one out. Most of the rest of us can afford only one scanner, don't want to take it apart like you do, but just need it to work, and work excellently. I can upgrade for $900. I will when I'm ready, or when I get a bunch of scans to do. (I offered a Thanksgiving discount for forum members and, while I got a pile of friendly responses, I didn't get a single scan to do.)

However, update or not, I don't think you can compare Silverfast to DPL Pro. You have the main feature, the ability to make a custom CMS, all kinds of batch processing, with each piece of film at a different resolution if you want, etc. DPL is professional software, even if there are things we could imagine to make it better. I also think its too expensive, but it does work very well, and that's all I care about.

Lenny

Actually most of the other owners I know scanning film as a business own more than one scanner. They just can not afford "being down", specially in the east coast. It's business 101. If I was a potential client I would think twice before sending my film to "one scanner" shop.

Regarding cost, I never paid full price for any of my Howtek scanners because honestly, I just can not afford it. Started as a need and became a hobby to fix them. If you purchased your scanner new let me say you paid a few times more than what I paid for all my howteks combined (about 9).

Regarding DPL, I like the interface simplicity, contrary to Silverfast's (SF) ugly and complicated one. Beyond that, I would not say DPL is much better because is not. DPL's CMS is just a fancy name for pretty basic adjustment curves. Nothing can stop me to create a set of curves for every kind of film and so far I use Wide Gamut mode for all. After all, the LUTs were included in the Howtek's design for speed, never for accuracy. Of course if your operate in an business environment where time is a factor, quality will be acceptable, not optimal. For serious work PS does the job a lot better and even SF allows you to import the fine-tuned curves back in their app. You have way more tools for image adjustment work in SF than DPL. And yes, SF supports batch work too.

The manuals for SF are PDFs in their web site, if you care to try it. Also you can download the demo version of the app. In the case of the HR8000 and Premier, they call it for the real device model, 5500.

[fishbulb]

My experience is somewhat limited, but I would say that the health of the film scanning industry not great.

If you are doing archival projects (photog died and the family wants to pay someone to scan and organize the archives), then there is still business to be had. Likewise with historical archiving work for long-standing businesses, institutions and local governments, etc. Although, it won't last forever, and digital archival work will take its place. Further, it's a global market place, and there are people offering archival services in foreign countries at very low prices (albeit often with questionable results).

If you are scanning for commercial photography (and they want big scans for big prints), there is not much left that is shot on film, so not much business to be had there.

If you are scanning for hobbyists, there may be plenty of film shooters, but they don't often want to pay for drum scans, and are often just fine with the lower quality of a flatbeds or a Nikon scanner for roll film. And the market is small - most photographers use digital. Finally, drum scanners, or used flatbeds or Nikon-type scanners, are fairly cheap, so some amateurs who might have paid for high-quality scans can find a very good to excellent quality scanner for less than the cost of a good lens.

Finally, drum scanning has been used for art reproduction (typically dry mount). However, this is a niche business, and you have to have a drum scanner with a pretty big drum - most Howtek/Aztek scanners are only 12x12". Increasingly, art reproduction (for posters, prints, etc.) is being done with a digital SLR, a very low distortion moderate-telephoto or macro lens, and then someone merging the files in Photoshop. A 300-megapixel file from a 4000dpi drum scan of a 4x5 (or 2000dpi of an 8x10) can be had with about 10 overlapping shots from a D800, and all in less time than shooting on large format, developing the negatives, drum scanning them all, and picking the best one and then editing the file. Instead, with a DSLR you can just skip straight to the editing phase.

So yeah, I wouldn't plan on starting a drum scanning business unless you've already got clients beating a path to your door.

Getting back to the topic of the thread:

This is very likely why Aztek keeps raising their prices, and why there isn't a cheaper version of DPL anymore. They want to hold total sales flat (or better yet, grow them), but the number of units they sell keeps going down - less software, less chemicals, fewer scanners, drums, and supplies. Sales = units x sales price. If units are going down, prices have to go up to keep sales up, and to keep the owners of the company getting the same size paychecks each year - and on a larger scale, to keep the business running and keep their employees from quitting.

[onnect17]

That's a very comprehensive and accurate status of the industry. Thanks!

Still I think the person that decided not to sell a "lite" version 8 was not the same person in charge for previous version. Remember Intel's 486DX? Or even the 8088? Again, GM would be out of business if decides to sell Cadillac's only.

As a matter of fact, there are some DPL users enjoying custom versions for few years. Not sure if those extra options are now part of DPL v8 features/fixes.

In any case I would not worry business wise. DPL is by no means a money maker. The money is in the supplies, like the drinks in McDonalds. DPL v8 will keep a dozen or so regular clients buying the supplies. Assuming all of them purchase the upgrade, they should break even. Then they could get prices down and make some money.

In the meantime there's always "FESTIVUS Silverfast FOR THE REST OF US". :-)

Talking about table scanners, check these babies --> http://www.crusescanner.com/products/

[Tim Povlick]

....
DPL's CMS is just a fancy name for pretty basic adjustment curves. Nothing can stop me to create a set of curves for every kind of film and so far I use Wide Gamut mode for all. After all, the LUTs were included in the Howtek's design for speed, never for accuracy.

Actually, the CMS loads the h/w registers, gain, LUT and DAC offset values directly so one gets benefit of the entire 16-bits per color channel. The other software does not know the proprietary format of controlling the device at this level. You will get scans but not take full advantage of the machine. I've pulled some badly exposed chromes / negs out with DPL and the Premier.

If I were a client and the vendor was not using DPL I'd take my business elsewhere.

[Vord]

That seems like a peculiar stance to take, unless perhaps all you have to have scanned are badly exposed slides (assuming you're correct that this is makes such a noticeable difference considering I lack first hand experience with DPL).
What's to stop a scanner operator from merging two or more scans at different levels to achieve the same in any other software and how would this not be better or at least equal?

[onnect17]

Actually, the CMS loads the h/w registers, gain, LUT and DAC offset values directly so one gets benefit of the entire 16-bits per color channel. The other software does not know the proprietary format of controlling the device at this level. You will get scans but not take full advantage of the machine. I've pulled some badly exposed chromes / negs out with DPL and the Premier.

If I were a client and the vendor was not using DPL I'd take my business elsewhere.

Tim, I am glad to hear you are happy with DPL but based in the information I gathered not call can be made via HTSAI (the dll used by DPL) to interact in any way with the Analog to Digital Converter. I would double check wherever you are reading about DPL, like this statement in the site about v8:

"By selecting different media types within Digital PhotoLab you are physically changing the parameters of the analog digital converter within the scanner."

Which parameters? Sure not the Vrefs. And the LUT or log amp are not part of it. The closest option is to set the white point manually from the console. No way of setting offset of anything like that via DPL. That is done by the firmware during calibration, which can be bypassed. Small corrections are done by the firmware during each drum rotation.

H/W registers? Do you mean hardware registers? Which one? Everything is a hardware register in some way.

All the Howtek scanners and the Premier use a 12 bits ADC, not 16.

Another claim (not mentioned in your post). The mysterious ceramic bearings. Good luck finding them. Maybe behind the 18th aperture listed in the Premier specs.

[Tim Povlick]

Premier spec:
Capture Fidelity: All scans are 16-bit separate RGB output

Ceramic bearing is in the head stock which clamps the drum in place.

I have work to do, enjoy your scanners and s/w and I shall do the same.

Good day,

Tim

[onnect17]

The ad9220 is a 12 bit converter. No 14, no 16, just 12.

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...1&d=1392334039

When I am editing the 14 bits file from my digital camera I bring it to 32 bits in PS. Does my camera is now capturing in 32 bits? Of course not.

Semantics does miracles for marketing.