Tank Developing LF Negatives?

[Jager]

I'm just kind of idly thinking about large format. Am very experienced with 35mm, medium format, and digital. But no experience at all with LF.

My question is... is it possible to hand develop 4x5 negatives in tanks? If so, is it particularly challenging?

From what I see, it seems most LF practitioners either do tray development or rotary processing. I don't have a darkroom and so trays are out of the question (I develop 35 and 120 in my kitchen, using a changing bag to load the tank). I would consider a Jobo, but that's a fairly expensive leap, in conjunction with the other stuff I would need to dip my toe in LF waters.

The back-end, were I to try this, would be digital. I have a Flextight X1 that can scan 4x5 negatives.

Thanks for any advice...

Jeff

[IanG]

I've been tank developing 5x4 negatives since 1976, it's no different to 35mm or 120. I use older JOBO 2000 series tanks, both mine take two reels each reel holding 6 sheets of film. There's newer Jobo tanks for rotary processing they can also be used for inversion agitation with the right lid.

There's Yankee and HP Combiplan tanks as wee, I just prefer the Jobos, very easy to use.

Ian

[DrTang]

There's newer Jobo tanks for rotary processing they can also be used for inversion agitation with the right lid.

or a cork..which is what I use

[jbenedict]

You don't necessarily need the whole Jobo system to use the tanks. You can use inversion agitation or find a Unicolor/Beseler motorized base to agitate.

There is also the Holy Grail of 4x5 developing, the Nikkor SS Tank but they are hard to find and. I had one and, frankly, it was kind of a pain to use.

[fishbulb]

Yes, there are numerous daylight tanks available for 4x5. (for 5x7 and 8x10 they are difficult to find though) It is not particularly challenging -it is very similar to tank developing 135 or 120 film. What IS challenging is getting adapted to each tank's idiosyncrasies. Whatever you decide on, find the instructions, read them, and obey them. Also do a google search and get some tips from experienced users of the particular tank you choose. Otherwise, you're likely to get streaking from uneven development, regardless of which tank it is. For me, the best development quality (most even and consistent) I've had has been BTZS tubes, but they require some amount of darkroom work to use. Right now the Nikor tank is my tank of choice though, and is a lot faster than the BTZS tubes.

* F&R Corp (Fink and Rosalieve I think) - black plastic, can load 12 negatives vertically at once, can be had on eBay for $20-30, uses about 2 liters of chemistry. Should come with the tank itself, two inner film holders (12 grooves in each), inner lid (about 5x5", thin), outer lid (about 6x6", thick), inner negative holder (plastic U-shaped piece) and sheet feeder (plastic strip with a slit in it). https://www.google.com/search?q=site...y.info+fr+tank

* Yankee 4x5 tank - similar to the F&R tank, also black plastic, loads 12 negatives horizontally, can be had new for $40, used for $20-30, uses about 2 liters of chemistry. See pics here to know what it should come with. More info: https://www.google.com/search?q=site...fo+yankee+tank

* HP Combi Plan tank - no longer available, but can be had used for $50-100 or so. Holds up to 12 negatives. Uses about 1 liter of chemistry. In many ways it is a more complicated/sophisticated version of the FR/Yankee design. There are a lot of parts so make sure you get them all if you buy used. Also, the plastic ends where the hoses connect can get brittle and crack so an old tank may need these replaced. I have not used this tank myself, but there are a lot of threads about it: https://www.google.com/search?q=site...+hp+combi+plan

* MOD 54 and Patterson tank - see here. Will cost you $90, can do 6 sheets at once, uses about 1 liter for the six sheets. The most modern design, and different from the others in that it holds the negatives with little feet instead of long slots. I have not used this system myself, but there are a lot of threads about it: https://www.google.com/search?q=site...phy.info+mod54

* Nikor Stainless 4x5 tank - not affiliated with Nikon/Nikkor, these stainless steel tanks will set you back $100-200 depending on condition. Can load 12 negatives at once in a spiral, only uses about 1 liter of chemistry, very efficient. A little more challenging to learn how to load, but once you get it down it's no more difficult than the Yankee or the F&R. I find the F&R the easiest to learn how to load, personally. These tanks should come with: tank, lid, cap for lid, inner cylinder with top and bottom plates and four screws on the top plate, and metal strip that goes around the cylinder. The ones on ebay are often missing parts. If the strip is missing you can use a rubber band, but you definitely need the other pieces. They come up on ebay pretty regularly, but it's hard to find a good one.

Requires slow agitation, so longer development times. I have found that the recommended inversion ever 2 minutes works well with about a 10% increase in development time, at least for D76. Some people say 20% longer. The Nikor tank came in two varieties - one with a top opening that has two concentric circles, and one that has a top opening that is split in 1/3 and 2/3 sections. The later style is the concentric circles and is more desirable, as it loads chemicals faster. The earlier style you have to pour a bit slower.

This is my favorite tank of the F&R, Yankee, and Nikor so far, for a couple reasons. I get good even development except for the very edges, I don't have to agitate it as often, it is 2x as efficient with chemistry use, and the inner cylinder can be used to dry the negatives instead of clamping them. To do this, I pull all the negatives almost all the way out of the cylinder, and then set the cylinder (with the negatives spiking out of it like spokes on a wheel) in the drying closet. No more clamp marks! For more info: https://www.google.com/search?q=site...nfo+nikor+tank

EDIT: There are of course, the Jobo tanks but I am not familiar with those at all.

[koh303]

You don't necessarily need the whole Jobo system to use the tanks. You can use inversion agitation or find a Unicolor/Beseler motorized base to agitate.

There is also the Holy Grail of 4x5 developing, the Nikkor SS Tank but they are hard to find and. I had one and, frankly, it was kind of a pain to use.

You can also roll Jobo tanks on any flat surface, or a manual roller base (Jobo #1509). Isent the holy grail of 4X5 processing an Expert tank?

[Jmarmck]

I have the Nikor SS 4x5 as well. It has five parts. The tank, the top, the cap, the reel, and the retaining band that encompasses the real when loaded.
As Adam said, these tanks are efficient. However, they fill and pour much more slowly than the equivalent 120 or 35 reels. I have had uneven development at the edge of some sheet but it is inconsistent.

The reel is adjustable so you can develop from 120 to 4x5 including the 2x3 sheets. The adjustable reel is temperamental. Some 4x5 sheet films are slightly larger. Neopan Acros 100 comes to mind. If you adjust the reel to closely hold TMX 100 then the Acros will bind when loading causing the sheets to touch. It took me quite a while to get the reel set correctly. I am not sure if it is there yet either.

I only load 6 sheets in the reel as the interior side of the sheets tend to touch the next sheet. I am not sure if the adjustable side of the reel is bowed or if it is just the nature of the beast. I can tell you that if there is any resistance when loading, then something is amiss, either miss fed or the reel is incorrectly adjusted.

[Regular Rod]

I'm just kind of idly thinking about large format. Am very experienced with 35mm, medium format, and digital. But no experience at all with LF.

My question is... is it possible to hand develop 4x5 negatives in tanks? If so, is it particularly challenging?

From what I see, it seems most LF practitioners either do tray development or rotary processing. I don't have a darkroom and so trays are out of the question (I develop 35 and 120 in my kitchen, using a changing bag to load the tank). I would consider a Jobo, but that's a fairly expensive leap, in conjunction with the other stuff I would need to dip my toe in LF waters.

The back-end, were I to try this, would be digital. I have a Flextight X1 that can scan 4x5 negatives.

Thanks for any advice...

Jeff

Trays are best. Tanks let you work in the daylight. You can have the best of both worlds. Effectively a daylight "tray" that will process four sheets of 4x5 at once. http://freepdfhosting.com/f640343f29.pdf

RR

[Luis-F-S]

I develop sheet film in 1 Gal Ledall SS tanks sitting in a California Stainless water jacket I had made around 25 years ago. I'm sure Cal Stainless still makes them. I can develop up to 6 8x10 hangers at a time in 1 gal of developer, so 6 8x10 sheets, or 12 5x7 on 2 ups, or 24 4x5 sheets on 4 up hangers or any combination of film sizes. The tanks last forever and the hangers are available used on a regular basis! It's the way Oliver Gagliani who taught me developed film. Tray development is popular because it's cheap since everyone already owns trays. I could never do it without scratching film. L



Vinny also makes similar low volume tanks out of ABS material which are going to be a whole lot cheaper than stainless. He may also be willing to provide a water bath jacket if requested.

[vinny]

The price of jobo drums have gone pretty high lately, especially new. On occasion, you may find a deal on one for $300 or less.
See my signature for a low volume solution to tank/hanger processing which uses as little as 500ml of liquid.