More on print quality, techniques and esthetics

[Doug Burgess]

In my opinion, if Meriel's work is the shape of photography to come, then I think I will bow out of the medium and pursue something else. There is simply no joy of achievement in brutally imposing my will on parts of an image I feel are too light, at the expense of other areas that need no adjustment.

[paulr]

Before you can critique someone's photographs, you need to attempt to answer a couple of questions:
what is the artist attempting to do? and is he or she succesful?
It is not possible to answer either question with certainty, but unless you go down the road of trying -- of asking those questions for yourself -- your judgements will never see past the shallow, murky waters of prejudice and taste.

Meriel's pictures do look sloppy to me, but I haven't seen enough of his work to even approach those first two questions. At first look I see issues much larger than ugly burning and dodging: like, why is this guy going around and self-consciously making pictures with the technology, the surface esthetics, and the pictorial ideas of the nineteenth century, well over a hundred years later?

Is his work a badly executed anachronism? Is it a postmodernist inside joke that I don't happen to be inside? Or is it just fantastical, decorative work, more along the lines of airbrushed unicorns?

I can certainly imagine some good answers to all these questions, but I'd have to spend a lot more time with his work, which seems like a big snore to me (why not just look at Atget? seems he got it right seventy years ago). At any rate, these are the key questions, and worrying about the ugly prints before getting to the bottom of the real issues seems a bit like critiquing the paint job of a sinking ship.

[Doug Burgess]

Readers of this forum might be interested in the response Brooks Jensen, editor of LenWork, has made on the thread noted at the beginning of this one.





http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00AhWS

[ISO 2]

"In my opinion, if Meriel's work is the shape of photography to come, then I think I will bow out of the medium and pursue something else. "

If someone does a doo in one corner of a paddy field, this is how threatened you'd feel? I detect a theme of 'being in competition with others' which drives your post and the tone of your post. Domenico may or may not have overstated the theme of professional jealousy although your words might confirm it.

Brooks said it well:

"I have learned that I need to suspend my way of doing photography when looking at the work of others".

Why do it this way which is not authentic for you? The tone of your post is deplorable even if I agree wholly with the content of your post which doesn't show a fraction of the wisdom which Brooks expresses in his words.

A lesser man might write an apology to Meriel. Not for raising the debate on his work whose premise is valid - there is no need to excuse that. Just a thought.

[Doug Burgess]

"I have learned that I need to suspend my way of doing photography when looking at the work of others".

I'm still learning this, obviously. I still want to mold everyone's photos into my aesthetic. A mentor once indicated to me that (regarding photography) having a strong conviction that my way was the only right way, was good, so...I'm a little confused.

I don't look at it as being threatened by someone squatting on the other end of the paddy field, more like the paddy field being flooded with crap and me jumping out before I get covered in it. The comment I made employed exaggeration to make a point. I don't intend to quit.

The thing is, I can appreciate work that's different from mine, but I have trouble when what I regard as inferior gets elevated and held in high esteem. Granted, I've learned a lot in the last two days, but this is what I thought was happening in this case. I appreciate Domenico's comment, thanks for reminding me, but I wonder if there is another jealousy to think about, one which is protective of photography itself, and seeks to see it depicted with integrity, honor and excellence? I have no more desire to be published than any one else. The jealousy Domenico alluded to was a personal jealousy. Perhaps I'm deluding myself, but I saw it as being towards the medium.

As for my wisdom, or lack thereof, who can say? Perhaps I'm a stupid person, but I did get my questions answered, and learned a great deal more, besides. That's more than I can say for those who saw the work, likewise dismissed it, but went ignorantly on their way. Wisdom is a necessary attribute for judges, philosophers, and kings, not photographers, so I maintain my self esteem, though I be unwise.

Writing to Meriel? It's not out of the question. He certainly deserves it, considering my nasty comments.

Sincerely--thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[paulr]

"I don't look at it as being threatened by someone squatting on the other end of the paddy field, more like the paddy field being flooded with crap and me jumping out before I get covered in it."

If the paddy field is being flooded with crap like meriel's, then it's probably a very small paddy field among many others. The dominant paddy field stank a bit like that one a hundred years ago, but right now meriel's work couldn't be less mainstream. If you look at contemporary work in any major museum collection, I suspect the last thing you'll be saying is "that burning and dodging sucks!"

Keep in mind that lenswork is a magazine about vintage work and anachronistic contemporary work that looks like vintage work. It's a very small niche, and one that (in my oppinion) offers more reasons than the ones provided by one crappy portfolio to get out. Getting out certainly doesn't have to mean giving up photography ... but it might well mean giving up the crutch of doing second hand work, and going on to do something authentic and relevent.

[Mark Sawyer]

I still have my doubts about the way Meriel's printing, but I appreciate that his work, and Doug's reaction to it, sparked an interesting discussion on personal aesthetics, publication standards, and the current state of the art. One of the better threads lately. Thanks to Doug, and all who thought and contributed.

[Doug Burgess]

What do you guys think about Sally Mann's big format work? The images themselves, to me, are ...well, I feel very puzzled by them, and very unmoved, but her technique is old processes, even wet plate. People around my area are enthralled with her, and I feel very odd man out thinking that a large part of her success is the gimick of the big camera and the success of her earlier collections.

[paulr]

"What do you guys think about Sally Mann's big format work?"

Which work of hers do you mean? I haven't seen anything new within the last few years, but all the old stuff I know about was done with a big camera. Personaly, what I've seen has been mesmerising. There's a real directness to the pictures that reveals some profound things about the subjects, and at the same time locks you out of other aspects of their personal worlds. The pictures also deal with aspects of childhood that most people have been afraid to deal with. They're are all simple, and formally conservative, which works, I think--it takes the emphasis off the artist and the process and puts it on the scene being depicted. Even the choice of a big negative contributes to this. It allows the process to get out of the way, so you're less aware of the photograph (no grain, etc). Nick Nixon's work achieves something similar. I'd draw the obvious parallel to Jock Sturgess, but his work is more stylized and more traditionally pretty--in a way that makes it look less contemporary.

[tim atherton]

"The thing is, I can appreciate work that's different from mine, but I have trouble when what I regard as inferior gets elevated and held in high esteem. Granted, I've learned a lot in the last two days, but this is what I thought was happening in this case. I appreciate Domenico's comment, thanks for reminding me, but I wonder if there is another jealousy to think about, one which is protective of photography itself, and seeks to see it depicted with integrity, honor and excellence?"

Doug

I'd bee interested if you feel the same about something like Elger Esser's work? (the usual poor web reproduction though)




http://www.newyorkartworld.com/images-reviews/aesser/Saone-608x400.jpg


http://www.artnet.com/artwork_images/139120/121227.jpg


http://www.sfeir-semler.de/sites/Esser/05-esser.htm


http://www.sfeir-semler.de/sites/Esser/07-esser.htm