Business VS Art for Art's sake

[Maris Rusis]

Maris..........."cynical conjecture". Sure there are characters like that but at the same time I have friends and acquaintances that are about as erasable, difficult and hermetic as an art character can be that not only do not kiss ass up the museum ladder but are the exact opposite and yet are exceedingly successful in the museum arena.

True! There are recalcitrant characters who have public success but I reckon they don't have as much fun as a busy artist on the make. My hyperactive pal who became an overnight art success in only ten years never regarded the daily pursuit of recognition as actual work. It was an exciting process chasing famous people, strolling the hallowed halls, throwing ideas at the wall to see what sticks, peppering any listener with opinions, and on and on.

But at no stage was the commercial objective forgotten. I recall an incident where I made 4x5 black and white copy negatives from a roll of transparencies I processed for him. One of those negs I advanced (just for fun) to a cyanotype because I happened to have sensitised paper on hand. When I presented him with the cyanotype he said "Wow, I never realised I was this good"! Yep, by the end of the next day he had signed and sold it.

I look back at those times with some cynicism but also with a tinge of admiration and envy.

[RodinalDuchamp]

I wonder about the actual experiences of people here promoting this idea or is it rumors and cynical conjecture. My experiences with curators at museums have overwhelmingly been positive and I (gasp) am a traditional LF B&W landscape photographer.





I don't know where these ideas come from. I have some 200 prints in museum collections and public collections and they have for the most part been purchased with very little effort on my part. If I were to aggressively pursue donating my work to museums I think that number would easily quadruple. All of the curators I know from New Mexico to Chicago are actively pursuing contemporary artists for shows and for their collections.

Duchamp, I think you are getting very lopsided opinions here. Somehow you need to get more diverse opinions about these issues.

Kirk,

I've been on your site and think highly of your opinion as I have also been lurking your threads. Thank you for your insight. One of my professors is one of these old hermetic non-asskissing types and he has been very successful having his work displayed many times nationally.

Maris..........."cynical conjecture". Sure there are characters like that but at the same time I have friends and acquaintances that are about as erasable, difficult and hermetic as an art character can be that not only do not kiss ass up the museum ladder but are the exact opposite and yet are exceedingly successful in the museum arena.

The only way I could thank you for this post is to quote Kevin Durant; Kirk "you the real MVP"

Thank you. I am at an idealistic point still where I have to believe my hard work and good photography and printing can garner attention, can still attract an intellectual crowd not looking to simply buy prints for the office but a crowd looking to connect with my work conceptually, spiritually, socially. I really don't think focus should be on selling prints or looking for the next person to schmooze if the work is strong enough.

[Merg Ross]

I am currently in college getting a BFA.

My personal goals are to one day be in a museum .....

Why a museum? Museums are simply warehouses for artwork, some of it being photography. And, within the walls are curators and directors with varying degrees of education and predilection. If being so represented is your goal, you should already be out knocking on doors and showing your portfolio.

However, I have to ask why that would be a goal. It is easily accomplished, but surely not an end in itself. Your work is what matters, and you should be the judge of its worth, not seeking affirmation by those unknown to you except by profession. The difficult task is in making really fine photographs, not gaining museum affirmation.

[Kirk Gittings]

I agree Merg but there is this pesky little problem called "making a living" (and I think there is much to be said to NOT make your living from your art-no marketing pressure driving your aesthetic). Any way, being in museum collections can add a lot of credibility to your work in the buying public's perception-especially when they purchase it. I don't make (art) images to sell. That's not my motivation....BUT I sure am happy when they do. Just saying..........

[Merg Ross]

I agree Merg but there is this pesky little problem called "making a living" (and I think there is much to be said to NOT make your living from your art-no marketing pressure driving your aesthetic). Any way, being in museum collections can add a lot of credibility to your work in the buying public's perception-especially when they purchase it. I don't make (art) images to sell. That's not my motivation....BUT I sure am happy when they do. Just saying..........

I understand completely, Kirk. And, I think you have handled the "making a living" and your personal work very well. I have been there, but took a slightly different route. However, I think we arrived at the same place in being "true to our vision". That is what really counts in the end! And that is what people get when they purchase my work --- my vision. And when they purchase your work, your vision.

[Mark Sawyer]

Re: museums seldom collecting contemporary work ...

Not to state the obvious, but you gotta ask what kind of museum it is. If it's called, say, a contemporary art museum, it would be kind of shocking if they didn't collect contemporary art.

If contemporary really meant contemporary, museums of contemporary anything would be an oxymoron unless they replaced their collections every few years. In the art world, "contemporary" seems to mean only decades old, as opposed to "modern", meaning perhaps a century old...

I'd hold out that art museums collect older work that has earned its little spot in history. That's their job, not to speculate on the art world's current events and what may or may not prove to be important in the future. Photographing historic sites and selling the images to history museums, cultural centers, and the like seems a different category than the "art for art's sake" issue...

[Toyon]

You may be jumping the gun here Merg. RodinalDuchamp may want to be in a Museum because he/she thinks that is the best way to communicate with his/her viewers. It is not necessarily about affirmation. Neither would it necessarily corrupting his/her ability to make good photographs to want his/her work seen. There are more than a few fine photographs whose work ends up being pulped because they were never recognized or seen. Fortunately there are more ways than ever to communicate with viewers (e.g. blogs, self-publishing etc...).

[Greg Miller]

Maris..........."cynical conjecture". Sure there are characters like that but at the same time I have friends and acquaintances that are about as erasable, difficult and hermetic as an art character can be that not only do not kiss ass up the museum ladder but are the exact opposite and yet are exceedingly successful in the museum arena.

Would you counsel a person striving to be collected by museums that being "erasable, difficult and hermetic as an art character can be" is the optimal, or even desirable, method to achieve that goal?

[Kirk Gittings]

The point is the work.

[djdister]

Let's take a step back here. Assumption one is that everyone here is a photographer. And that's where all assumptions must stop. One person's vision of success may be to be penniless and starving, but with work in a museum. Another person's vision of success may be to have your work sell for 6.5M dollars. And there's a whole lot in between those two extremes, but one person cannot say that their vision of succcess is right and another person's vision of succes is wrong. They are just different. You may not like another person's vision of success any more than you like or dislike what they photograph, or how they photograph. For some people, continual self-promotion is just the way they are wired, while others find that approach to be anathema. If you have found yourself and your style of photography somewhere on this continuum, be happy, be healthy, and move on.