Business VS Art for Art's sake

[Richard M. Coda]

Not trying to rain on your parade here, but I would consider going back to school... for something else... and keeping this a hobby that you enjoy and love. The days you pine for are long gone. Art is basically dead. I was at the Carnegie Mellon Open Art Studio the other night (they have one each semester for students to show their work). I have to tell you, 99.999% of it sucked. I took photos of the floor boards from the studios... much more interesting than anything I saw being exhibited. And I even heard one student say to another "I only have to get a D". From that observation I calculated that the parents of these kids are wasting over $1 million a year collectively. My daughter goes to CMU and, IMHO, has more talent in the little piece of her left index finger she accidentally sliced off two weeks ago, than in the entire art school. My daughter was smart... at 16 she said to us... I don't want to be a starving artist and most art today sucks... the only ones who make money are really bad... they are just good marketers (bullsh!tters). So, what did she do? She applied to the School of Drama across the green. Got accepted at her interview (one of only two) and they only accept scenic design majors a year. She said she could use her talents to make money and pretty much work wherever she wants to. On top of her loaded schedule (plus "crew" and late night studio time) she has been working four jobs (all referrals from teachers and grad students) since June... she's made over $3000 that she's going to use to go to the Prague Quadrennial this June.

I am a LF film photographer (4x5, 8x10, 11x14) and have sold maybe 10 prints in 30 years.... I gave up on being the next Edward Weston... I make a hell of a lot more money as a graphic designer with large global clients (so I can afford to send my daughter to CMU)... and really appreciate the little time I get to photograph and print. Take from all this what you will, and good luck.

[djdister]

Yes I would rather shoot and be penniless but enjoy what I do to my core. Its fine for others to make all the money they can. Personally I want my work to reach an audience but not necessarily for commerce.

So answer these questions:
1) what do you plan to do to make a living?
2) what type of photographic body of work do you want to pursue, and what effect do you want it to have on "an audience"?

[RodinalDuchamp]

Not trying to rain on your parade here, but I would consider going back to school... for something else... and keeping this a hobby that you enjoy and love. The days you pine for are long gone. Art is basically dead. I was at the Carnegie Mellon Open Art Studio the other night (they have one each semester for students to show their work). I have to tell you, 99.999% of it sucked. I took photos of the floor boards from the studios... much more interesting than anything I saw being exhibited. And I even heard one student say to another "I only have to get a D". From that observation I calculated that the parents of these kids are wasting over $1 million a year collectively. My daughter goes to CMU and, IMHO, has more talent in the little piece of her left index finger she accidentally sliced off two weeks ago, than in the entire art school. My daughter was smart... at 16 she said to us... I don't want to be a starving artist and most art today sucks... the only ones who make money are really bad... they are just good marketers (bullsh!tters). So, what did she do? She applied to the School of Drama across the green. Got accepted at her interview (one of only two) and they only accept scenic design majors a year. She said she could use her talents to make money and pretty much work wherever she wants to. On top of her loaded schedule (plus "crew" and late night studio time) she has been working four jobs (all referrals from teachers and grad students) since June... she's made over $3000 that she's going to use to go to the Prague Quadrennial this June.

I am a LF film photographer (4x5, 8x10, 11x14) and have sold maybe 10 prints in 30 years.... I gave up on being the next Edward Weston... I make a hell of a lot more money as a graphic designer with large global clients (so I can afford to send my daughter to CMU)... and really appreciate the little time I get to photograph and print. Take from all this what you will, and good luck.

So answer these questions:
1) what do you plan to do to make a living?
2) what type of photographic body of work do you want to pursue, and what effect do you want it to have on "an audience"?

Both of these posts are similar. For one I am not of the persuasion that money is the ultimate motivator. I am not interested in making more money than Weston. I already live pretty frugally.

I would be content working as a teacher and later professor which would afford lots of time to continue working on my personal body of work. A BFA actually has limitless ends and as of now have a higher hiring rate than business majors.

[Kodachrome25]

It takes marketing to get your work out there and for people to see it (before they can get excited about it). Whatever you are doing to get people excited to see it is your marketing. There are traditional marketing methods and non-traditional methods. But its all marketing. Every business has marketing. Many businesses with really outstanding products fail all the time because no-one knows they exist.

Of course, I was just trying to show that there are ways to shed the often frowned upon use of the word "Marketing" and put it into another context. In some ways, when someone who is not looking for income shares their work on a site like this one, they too are "Marketing" in order to gain an accolade or admiration for their efforts.

The days you pine for are long gone. Art is basically dead.

I guess I have a better outlook on it than that. I believe artists are in charge of if art is dead or not....

[Richard M. Coda]

edit: "only accept 6-7 scenic design majors a year"

[Richard M. Coda]

Weston made no money until he was dead. As did Van Gogh.

[Richard M. Coda]

I would be content working as a teacher and later professor which would afford lots of time to continue working on my personal body of work.

Ahhhh, now we know the true motivation...

[Jac@stafford.net]

Weston made no money until he was dead. As did Van Gogh.

Van Gogh had his brother as a patron, which helps.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Both of these posts are similar. For one I am not of the persuasion that money is the ultimate motivator. I am not interested in making more money than Weston. I already live pretty frugally.

I would be content working as a teacher and later professor which would afford lots of time [...]

BFA actually has limitless ends and as of now have a higher hiring rate than business majors.

I wold dearly appreciate an authoritative source that shows BFA recipients have more significant career opportunities than business graduates. Please.

As for being a professor you are only one degree from qualification. All that is generally required is a MFA and peer approval of the department. And is highly likely across all opportunities is that you will not achieve professorship unless you commit to digital.
.

[RodinalDuchamp]

My professors have passed around some articles detailing the job outlooks for artists, here is one from the Wall Street Journal:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...49060054918936
"Artists' income is comparable to other liberal-arts majors," he says. "They do a little better than psychology majors, since counseling and social work is a very low-wage occupation."
"For artists who go on to graduate degrees, the most common of which is the master's of fine arts, the unemployment rate for recent graduates drops to just under 5%"


http://www.economicmodeling.com/2012...usiness-major/
"The unemployment rate for recent business graduates (aged 22-26) is 7.4%, higher than education or health but much lower than architecture, the arts, or even engineering. "

So far I have been to 2 school Miami Dade College and Florida International University. I have also looked at programs at RISD, New World, and Columbia University all of which have film as the central backbone to their photo programs. MDC will not even allow you to take Digital before you take a film class; its prerequisite. So to assume film is going away especially at the academic level is pure speculation. There are aspects of shooting film that are better learned through the darkroom process. Much like all animators must take a drawing class.

I am not saying this is my plan, just one option I have available. I think most artists probably have a day job at least until they become established or credible. Working in education is not a bad gig but there are so many options with a BFA its hard to name them all but you could work for a bank or art insurer, gallery work, museum work, conservatory work, art restoration, art administration, non-profits... etc