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Thread: Ball Head for Large Format?

  1. #11

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    Re: Ball Head for Large Format?

    As Picker used to say "If you're gonna use a tripod, you might as well put an 8x10 on it....." or something like that. For 8x10 & 7x17 I prefer the Ries heads.

    Hope all is well, Bill.

  2. #12

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    Re: Ball Head for Large Format?

    I use an Arca-Swiss z1 with my V8 Deardorff. The head is rock solid and very compact. On the down side, it is a little difficult to get every lined up. I am sure a geared head would lovely to use, but they are more than I wish to carry or pay for at this time.

  3. #13
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Ball Head for Large Format?

    Ball heads are the root of all evil when it comes to making sharp large format images.

  4. #14
    Preston Birdwell
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    Re: Ball Head for Large Format?

    Drew, one question: How is a ball head any less stable than any other head, assuming the operator uses the care required? I've used Bogen pan/tilt heads and ball heads for a long time, and my LF trannies and negs are sharp across the board.

    --P
    Preston-Columbia CA

    "If you want nice fresh oats, you have to pay a fair price. If you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse; that comes a little cheaper."

  5. #15
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Ball Head for Large Format?

    It's just basic laws of physics and torque vectors etc. You take a largish object and place all that atop a little point, and every conceivable vibration gets amplified. What might work perfectly well for a lightweight 4x5 field camera is likely to do poorly indeed with the typical 8x10. That's why I don't like any kind of tripod head for that kind of thing, and prefer to rest the camera directly atop a relatively large flat tripod PLATFORM. The traditional survey tripod (or Ries tweak of it) is easy enough to adjust as is. But if someone does choose to use a head, a low center-of-gravity platform-style one is going to be much less prone to vibration, like the Ries version itself, or the Sinar pan-tilt head. A comparable stability ballhead would weigh an awful lot. For the same reason, a basic Gitzo pan/tilt head that I use for 35mm seems to work quite well for my little Ebony 4x5 folder (even though I rarely use it for that), but would be basically useless for my either my 4x5 Sinar monorail or, ironically, my Pentax 6x7 with long lenses, where vibration can be a deciding issue. I know you happen to work with a nice little field 4x5 too, so maybe you've never encountered the problem. But it's always amusing to see someone pull a brand-new 8x10 out of a box in some place like Yos Valley, plus a pretty hefty tripod, but a ballhead... and then watch them wait and wait and wait until the vibrations settle down.

  6. #16

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    Re: Ball Head for Large Format?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Ball heads are the root of all evil when it comes to making sharp large format images.
    My Ebony 8x10 and Arca Swiss ball head say you are sadly mistaken! Been using this combo for over 15 years without a problem. This includes using a 600 racked out on the ball head. You may have a problem with it but I certainly do not.

  7. #17
    Unwitting Thread Killer Ari's Avatar
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    Re: Ball Head for Large Format?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becia View Post
    My Ebony 8x10 and Arca Swiss ball head say you are sadly mistaken! Been using this combo for over 15 years without a problem. This includes using a 600 racked out on the ball head. You may have a problem with it but I certainly do not.
    I am, no surprise, in total agreement with Jim.

    Toyo 810M, G&C Petzval = ~20lbs

    Exposure of 1s, lens cap shutter, extension of about 480mm

    Zsuzsi by Ari4000, on Flickr

    CB-58FT ball head on a CF tripod, no sharpening

  8. #18
    Whatever David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Re: Ball Head for Large Format?

    I've manage to come to terms with ball heads, when lighter weight is an advantage, because they do have greater strength for weight. The key, I think, is to use a bullseye level, like the one on the top of my 4x5" Technika, or a separate one that I use with other cameras, when I use a ballhead.

    The ideal hybrid is the Arca-Swiss B2, which has the strength/weight advantages of a ballhead, but the control of a 3-way head, except it's so huge that it's overkill in many situations (rated to support 150 lbs, and I suspect that's on the conservative side). I've also used the Majestic geared head and the Gitzo G1570M 3-way with the large platform, and no question, the B2 is more solid and offers finer control with cameras large and small.

    Maybe the FLM is the compromise between a B2 and a more modest sized ballhead like the Acratech, but I've got to wonder why Arca-Swiss hasn't come up with a half-sized version of the B2.

  9. #19

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    Re: Ball Head for Large Format?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    It's just basic laws of physics and torque vectors etc. You take a largish object and place all that atop a little point, and every conceivable vibration gets amplified.
    That is exactly why I don't understand why view camera manufacturers designed monorail cameras that sit upon a relatively small point.

    I use a Manfrotto tripod and fluid head that are designed for professional video cameras. These cameras have a large flat base so their quick release units and tripod heads are designed for that large flat base. To me, these features are better than what is designed and sold for still photography.

  10. #20

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    Re: Ball Head for Large Format?

    Sinar The load point is relatively small relative to it's overall size.

    Never been able to get any ball head to work for me with any view camera. This includes the Arca Swiss B2. It could be due to the way I used the view camera. It must be leveled on the X and Y axis precisely after the actual camera location has been decided upon. Trying to do this with a ball head is just plain difficult as the point of balance changes along with location once the ball head is released.

    Using the Sinar pan-tilt head with a Sinar monorail on a leveled tripod allows precise adjustment on one axis at a time and balancing of the camera based on bellows extension. The dance would be to rough in the amount of bellows draw and rail extensions required, then balance the entire camera on the rail mount (slide the whole works back and forward on the rail ring as required). Once this is done, X and-or Y axis, rotation is adjusted as required. With that set, fall/rise/shift and other camera movements are applied to achieve the desired composition following with the rest of the process.

    Over the years, this delivers the best camera stability with reasonable ease of single axis adjustment without the other position settings getting outs-whack. Adding to this, recently been using a modified Dutch Hill tripod which was originally designed for surveying. It has composite legs, light weight, nice dampening of vibrations, very easy to adjust and very stable. Parked is the big Gitzo that was the go to tripod.

    Geared heads are precise, trade off, slow in adjustment speed.



    Bernice




    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaTerry View Post
    That is exactly why I don't understand why view camera manufacturers designed monorail cameras that sit upon a relatively small point.

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