learning from photos on line????

[Vaughn]

Although the sentiment that technical things are dead last is true in the end, I think the technical issues are the icing on the cake so to speak...

Well said. Everything goes into creating an image -- from concept to equipment to technique to execution. All are equally important to me. I need to know the ins and outs of the carbon printing process -- and the technical details of exposing and developing film -- in order to be able to create a negative that will translate my concept into a finished print.

[Matsushime]

On viewing the pictures here I've learned that my pictures really suck!

Haha, I second this. I know now that most of my work is total crap! But I suppose that's a learning experience in itself.

[Harley Goldman]

But first you have to teach yourself to see. Looking at pictures and learning to see comes ahead of everything else. Technical things are dead last--they're only needed when you finally know what you want to see in what you do, to make that happen. The technical stuff is the tiniest little bit of the whole process, meaningless without solidly conceived and executed subject matter. On on its own, it doesn't mean a thing.

I totally agree, Michael. I think too many people get hung up on equipment or some technique. You have to learn how to see and from there, develop a style and an eye that works for you. It takes practice and time behind a camera, any camera. I think a strong composition gets you 90% there.

A crappy composition is still a crappy composition, whether you have the really great soft focus lens on your camera or are shooting an 8x10, 20x24 or whatever. No equipment makes a composition better. I would rather see a well done phone image than a contact print from an ULF camera that is a lousy comp. That is my $0.02, anyway.

[Greg Miller]

I totally agree, Michael. I think too many people get hung up on equipment or some technique. You have to learn how to see and from there, develop a style and an eye that works for you. It takes practice and time behind a camera, any camera. I think a strong composition gets you 90% there.

A crappy composition is still a crappy composition, whether you have the really great soft focus lens on your camera or are shooting an 8x10, 20x24 or whatever. No equipment makes a composition better. I would rather see a well done phone image than a contact print from an ULF camera that is a lousy comp. That is my $0.02, anyway.

Agreed. The technical aspect of photography is simply a foundation. It is necessary because the artistic vision cannot vision cannot flourish if the photographer is consumed by technical matters. But there are thousands of camera clubs out there filled people making with very well executed, but very formulaic and mechanics photos. Boring.

But once the technical aspects are mastered, the creative process is free to flourish. Then its up to the artistic vision to be revealed. I'm much more interested in seeing visually inspired and unique photos than I am in seeing technically well executed photos.

It is similar to musicians. There are hoards of instrumentalists who play at a high level technically (but that's what player pianos do). But only a few that can play musically. Those are the musicians worth listening to.

[Kirk Gittings]

But its not really like you get the technique down and then your artistic vision flourishes. Its more like you learn some stuff make some mistakes-make some images that hint at what is possible get excited, go around again, go around again, go around again. Each time you flourish a bit and that wets your appetite for more. I'm still doing the rounds many decades later. Still learning, still stumbling, still succeeding, still getting excited, ready for the next round of challenges, learning and flourishing.

[Greg Miller]

But its not really like you get the technique down and then your artistic vision flourishes. Its more like you learn some stuff make some mistakes-make some images that hint at what is possible get excited, go around again, go around again, go around again. Each time you flourish a bit and that wets your appetite for more. I'm still doing the rounds many decades later. Still learning, still stumbling, still succeeding, still getting excited, ready for the next round of challenges, learning and flourishing.

I believe that if you are worried about the technical things, then there's very little chance for the artistic vision to flourish. You are stuck in the left side of the brain. It's only after the technical stuff becomes more automatic that the right side of the brain can dominate. Sure there is an iterative process and both skills grow over time. But the deficiencies in technical skills will impede the artistic expression. I see people struggling all the time deciding on exposure, what lens to use, what aperture to use, ... There's no way they are going to be seeing artistically if they are so tied up in those technical matters.

[Bernice Loui]

There are two starting points that can end up in a very similar place.

Highly artistic and creative individuals that have been born with great expressive talent limited by their technical ability to express what they have to share with the world.

Technically versed, skilled individuals who fully understand completely the technical aspects of image making limited by their artistic and creative ability to express what their technical abilities are fully capable of.

There needs to be a balance of the two and both skill sets must be developed enough to allow the expressive image making process to work. It is too easy to get overly wrapped up in one or the other and lose sight of the expressive image making goal (s).

There is much that can be learned from studying art and photographic history. It does matter to see and know what others have done in the past as points of reference and examples of what can and cannot be done.

Once a set of image making tools (camera, lens, film, processing, print making and..) have been mastered enough, then one needs to apply these tools towards expressive image making. This is looking and studying imaged in real life, on line, in book, in print and simply just observing the world can make all the difference. Composition is much about making form and order out of dis-order in a way that gives voice to the object or scene being imaged or the image maker using these items as a means of expression. Great images often have a bit of what the scene or object being photographed has to say with aspects of the image maker revealed in the image created.


Bernice

I believe that if you are worried about the technical things, then there's very little chance for the artistic vision to flourish. You are stuck in the left side of the brain. It's only after the technical stuff becomes more automatic that the right side of the brain can dominate. Sure there is an iterative process and both skills grow over time. But the deficiencies in technical skills will impede the artistic expression. I see people struggling all the time deciding on exposure, what lens to use, what aperture to use, ... There's no way they are going to be seeing artistically if they are so tied up in those technical matters.

[mdm]

I will never forget Paul Caponigro's advice somewhere on YouTube to work on yourself because that's where great prints come from. Great vision will come from a calm focused mind, junk from a scattered or boring mind. That's what makes a ken lee recognisable, an Austin granger what it is, a Jonathan or a Christopher broadbent. It's what changes formulaic or cliched shit into something special. That slippery thing Life.

[mdarnton]

However, there's no need at all to master, or even minimally understand technical things to take great photos. There are tons of wonderful pictures on Flickr by people who I think only know which button to push. Cartier-Bresson could possibly be an example, or look at Allen Ginsberg's book, for that matter. There is, though, no possibility of taking great pictures if you don't know how to do the art stuff.

I believe that if you are worried about the technical things, then there's very little chance for the artistic vision to flourish. You are stuck in the left side of the brain. It's only after the technical stuff becomes more automatic that the right side of the brain can dominate. Sure there is an iterative process and both skills grow over time. But the deficiencies in technical skills will impede the artistic expression. I see people struggling all the time deciding on exposure, what lens to use, what aperture to use, ... There's no way they are going to be seeing artistically if they are so tied up in those technical matters.

[Greg Miller]

There are two starting points that can end up in a very similar place.

Highly artistic and creative individuals that have been born with great expressive talent limited by their technical ability to express what they have to share with the world.

Technically versed, skilled individuals who fully understand completely the technical aspects of image making limited by their artistic and creative ability to express what their technical abilities are fully capable of.

There needs to be a balance of the two and both skill sets must be developed enough to allow the expressive image making process to work. It is too easy to get overly wrapped up in one or the other and lose sight of the expressive image making goal (s).

Agreed. There is great diversity in innate and learned skills, learning styles, and right/left brain dominance. In virtually all cases, if a person is absorbed in technical details, they will not be excelling in creativity.

I see the technical skills as a foundation. Mastering technical skills is highly desirable. But that is simply a beginning. Technically excellent photos are not in and of themselves excellent photos. They may be interesting for a short time. Much like a player piano is technically perfect - yet boring as hell after a few minutes. It is the unique artistic vision that separates the best photographers & photographs, and keeps the photographs interesting over the long haul.