On the Origin of the 4x5 Camera

[tgtaylor]

In 1881 the Anthony firm began marketing a 4x5 inch camera outfit for only $10 in the national ad campaign “Dry Plate Photography for the Million.” I believe that this camera was the” Ne Plus Ultra Camera” shown in the 1883 catalogue: http://piercevaubel.com/cam/scovill/neaddd.htm and may well have been the first commercially produced 4x5 format camera. As shown in the catalogue, the Ne Plus Ultra was manufactured by “Scovill A & Co.” The Anthony firm merged with Scovill and Adams in 1902 and later became Ansco. For a historical background on the firm see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._%26_...ny_%26_Company

Thomas

[IanG]

In 1881 the Anthony firm began marketing a 4x5 inch camera outfit for only $10 in the national ad campaign “Dry Plate Photography for the Million.” I believe that this camera was the” Ne Plus Ultra Camera” shown in the 1883 catalogue: http://piercevaubel.com/cam/scovill/neaddd.htm and may well have been the first commercially produced 4x5 format camera. As shown in the catalogue, the Ne Plus Ultra was manufactured by “Scovill A & Co.” The Anthony firm merged with Scovill and Adams in 1902 and later became Ansco. For a historical background on the firm see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._%26_...ny_%26_Company

Thomas

I assume you mean the first commercial 4x5 camera in the US, 5 x4 cameras were already in use in the UK, after all Dry plates began with Maddox in the UK in 1871 and the first commercial factories producing plates were 1879 when Alfred Harman founded what was later to become Ilford in Ilford, Essex.

It has to be remembered that around that time photography was advancing very fast in Europe and there were significantly more camera manufacturers and plate and later paper factories.

Ian

[tgtaylor]

Ian,

Can you provide any links to that?

Thomas

[IanG]

Ian,

Can you provide any links to that?

Thomas

A link to what, the fact that Dallmeyer and others were selling 5x4 cameras earlier, the fact that Harman set up in 1879 and that he wasn't the only one. It's not a big secret

Ian

[tgtaylor]

Yes, I was thinking US made. But now that you brought it up, who manufactured the first 4x5 inch camera? Dallmeyer did make a 8x10 inch wet plate camera in the 1870's http://collectiblend.com/Cameras/Dal...te-Camera.html but the earliest reference to a 4x5 inch Dallmeyer was un the 1880's http://collectiblend.com/Cameras/Dal...io-Camera.html. Scoville was manufacturing a mass market 4X5 inch for the Anthony firm in 1881.

Thomas

[Toyon]

5x4? Preposterous!

[jbenedict]

Well, if you want 4x5, just turn the camera on its side...

[IanG]

Yes, I was thinking US made. But now that you brought it up, who manufactured the first 4x5 inch camera? Dallmeyer did make a 8x10 inch wet plate camera in the 1870's http://collectiblend.com/Cameras/Dal...te-Camera.html but the earliest reference to a 4x5 inch Dallmeyer was un the 1880's http://collectiblend.com/Cameras/Dal...io-Camera.html. Scoville was manufacturing a mass market 4X5 inch for the Anthony firm in 1881.

Thomas

Dallmeyer sold 5x4 (4x5) wet plate cameras in the mid 1870's. British made lenses of that era were often marked with their coverage with the longer side first i.e. 8x5.

A number of British companies associated with cameras, lens, materials manufacture were established many years before Antony, and there were similar companies in the rest of Europe. Dallmeyer began in 1860, Wray in 1850, Ross in 1830, Johnsons in 1743 - still trading as camera importers and repairers they sold silver nitrate and other chemicals to Fox Talbot.

There was no mass market in the 1880's not for plate cameras, you only need to look at the numbers of lenses large manufacturers were making it does increase when dry plates started to become common and the number of camera manufacturers increases in the 1890's.

The mass market only begins with smaller, lighter more portable cameras, faster emulsions, commercial processing, roll films (available in Europe before Eastman Kodak) etc.

Ian

[MDR]

Dallmeyer sold 5x4 (4x5) wet plate cameras in the mid 1870's. British made lenses of that era were often marked with their coverage with the longer side first i.e. 8x5.

A number of British companies associated with cameras, lens, materials manufacture were established many years before Antony, and there were similar companies in the rest of Europe. Dallmeyer began in 1860, Wray in 1850, Ross in 1830, Johnsons in 1743 - still trading as camera importers and repairers they sold silver nitrate and other chemicals to Fox Talbot.

There was no mass market in the 1880's not for plate cameras, you only need to look at the numbers of lenses large manufacturers were making it does increase when dry plates started to become common and the number of camera manufacturers increases in the 1890's.

The mass market only begins with smaller, lighter more portable cameras, faster emulsions, commercial processing, roll films (available in Europe before Eastman Kodak) etc.

Ian

Half Plate Daguerreotypes were already very close to the 4x5 format (4 1/4" x 5 1/2 ") and it seems that 4x5 inch daguerreotype cameras existed This Daguerreotype by ``Mr Kilburn 234 Regent Street by Appointment'' is 4x5in (10x13cm) and set in a gilded, cast brass picture frame with plain matt contained in a red morocco cover case with photographer's details, plus his Royal warrants. It sold in Bonhams for pounds 640." (Auction catalogue) The British Journal of Photography, Volume 130 also talks about a 4x5 portrait Daguerreotype of Nevil Story Maskelyne
Plate sizes weren't really that standardized in the early years of photography.

[IanG]

Half Plate Daguerreotypes were already very close to the 4x5 format (4 1/4" x 5 1/2 ") and it seems that 4x5 inch daguerreotype cameras existed This Daguerreotype by ``Mr Kilburn 234 Regent Street by Appointment'' is 4x5in (10x13cm) and set in a gilded, cast brass picture frame with plain matt contained in a red morocco cover case with photographer's details, plus his Royal warrants. It sold in Bonhams for pounds 640." (Auction catalogue) The British Journal of Photography, Volume 130 also talks about a 4x5 portrait Daguerreotype of Nevil Story Maskelyne
Plate sizes weren't really that standardized in the early years of photography.

Totally agree, I'm sure there were quite a few different 5x4 cameras before the Antony camera and the company chose a logical size already in use.

Ian