Help me refine Voigtlander Serial Numbers

[CCHarrison]

Hi,

I have been working on refining Voigtlander serial numbers from 1840-1878 by using the Lens Collectors Vade Mecum, Carsten Grabenhorst's book Voigtlander & Sohn, as well as other contemporary sources like Humphrey's Journal, BPJ and other periodicals. Not an easy task, especially given Grabenhorst's book is in German and I am using Google translate to read it. By the way, you can see a good sampling of this book here:

While consensus is hard to come by, there are a few confirmed dates that make me feel like the period from about 1852-1868 is pretty accurate. Please note I needed to extrapolate quite a bit to get these numbers to jive with the sources I have found. If you have more data or constructive help, please let me know. In the meantime, here is my most current posting of serial numbers based on my research to date. Please see here: http://antiquecameras.net/voigtlanderlenses.html

Thanks
Dan

[Steven Tribe]

I think "refine" is the wrong word for this!
There is no doubt that the present data in lists for the period around 1870-1880 is pretty spurious.
A very good idea/project.

[CCHarrison]

Steven, you should read the Grabenhorst book... he details this period .... If I could only read German, I could dig more..... any German readers want to read my copy of this book and help find out why production all but stopped from 1869-1873 ?

Dan

[John Fink Jr.]

Dan, my German is very rusty. I'll try reading through it to see what I can glean from it.
As you know that 1878 period might interest me.
Dan, great work as always.

[CCHarrison]

Steven based on your earlier work trying to pinpoint the dating of the Euryscop (Euryskop/Euryscope), the timetable of 22000 c. 1876 and 25,000 c. 1878 seems to hold - doesnt it?

Here is your thread http://www.largeformatphotography.in...roto-Euryscope

Notice with lens 22957 (from liveauctioneers.com) that these models are distinguished from the older Petzvals by the black painted rings in addition to the newly added numbering "4" for size. This lens is not the standard old Petzval as the number 4 sized Petzval had rack-in-pinion... If it had black trim rings, it isnt a standard Petzval, this seems to be the pre-engraved Euryscop?

Dan

PS - # 24927 http://p2.la-img.com/427/26769/10054390_1_x.jpg

# 29xxx http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/1425249

another 29xxx http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8777339

[Steven Tribe]

Yes, I have already done a check on these RR/Euryskops and compared them with new proposal and it seems to fit very well.

Eder reported on the "new" Euryskops in 1886 (also given in LVM). I would equate this with the introduction of the engraved Euryskop name and the adoption of the series III, IV etc. designations. Which means 32,000 (earliest serial no. for Euryskop engraving) is 1886.

[CCHarrison]

The attached ad, published in a book published in 1878, has testimonials for the Euryscope dating to October 1877. It would appear that lenses in the 22,5xx range date to mid 1877 further confirming the serial number table in this range.

Dan

[Steven Tribe]

The 1878 advert from B.French is a very early use of the word Euryscope!

Could it be that the label was an American addition, which Voigtländer eventually Germanised and adopted at the time of Eder's visit in 1886?

[Jac@stafford.net]

Is the engraving style (not text) on these lenses any indication of year?
For example, one has at the top line "7." (seven dot), while others have no dot.

[Steven Tribe]

There are well documented changes in both the text and engraving styles but dots are not a clue - more likely different staff members. The difficult engraving of N in No. also varies a lot due to the size/curvature of the barrel.
At some stage, Voigtländer adopted an engraving "machine" of some sort - but I know nothing about when, or what it consisted of!