first LF camera--toyo 45a vs. horseman 45fa

[Cindy_4701]

Hi,

I have really learned a lot from reading prior posts here--thank you to all of you who took the time to post. I am a photo major who is just making the transition from MF to LF. I have considered so many cameras that my head is spinning, but I shoot mostly outdoors, landscapes and urban environments. Finally, I decided a view camera was best. I started off with the idea of a Crown Graphic, then, listening to the advice of various owners, I thought I would get something that would allow me to learn more about movements and to use them. Somehow, I felt more comfortable with metal rather than wood--things just happen when I shoot and I need something that I don't have to worry about too much. Knowing my work, my professors have suggested lenses in the 90-135 range. So, I have come up with two alternatives, a Toyo 45a for 695, with trial period and warranty, or a Horseman FA 45--it's 1200 with 5 lensboards, included a recessed one. I was about to decide between the two, very happy that I had found them from reputable dealers, and then read here in past posts, that the use of lenses is limited with a Horseman, most people were down on the camera, it seemed like. There is also an opportunity for a Wisner Technical for about the same price as the Horseman--so, I would be happy to hear any responses. I am spinning again.

Oh, and any suggestions for a first lens that doesn't cost a gazillion dollars? a 90, a 120 (they seem very expensive), or a 135?

Thanks to everyone for listening to a beginner who has only taken two photographs with a 4x5. I feel like I'm trying to figure out something that I haven't seen or experienced yet.

[Cindy_4701]

Sorry, I meant a field camera, not a view camera.

[Glenn Kroeger]

Cindy:

Both are fine starter cameras. I have used both, but I would recommend the Toyo for several reasons.

First, the Toyo has more usable bellows draw. I use lenses from 75mm to 300mm on the Toyo. The maximum draw on the Horseman is about 235mm. The Horseman also becomes difficult for short lenses. Because the lens sits closer to the bed, the bed intrudes into vertical shots with wide angle lenses, forcing one to turn the camera body on its side. A 75mm is very difficult to use on the Horseman.

Second, the rear swing and tilt on the Toyo are far more usable. The Horseman uses a Linhof style back, where swing and tilt are accomplished by floating the back on 4 rods. It works, but it much less intuitive for a beginner, and much more difficult to achieve only one movement.

Finally, the larger lensboard on the Toyo makes it much easier to adjust lens controls. This is exacerbated for short lenses. There are no practical recessed boards for the Horseman. The 12mm recessed board for the Toyo is very easy to use and produces more movement capability.

The Horseman is lighter, and it does have center rather than base tilts on the front standard, but I think the other advantages of the Toyo outweigh (no pun intended) these advantages.

[Glenn Kroeger]

Forgot to add that although I have added Arca-Swiss equipment, I still have and use my Toyo 45A. It is a real tank in the field and has never let me down.

[Gem Singer]

Hi Cindy,

The two cameras you mentioned are fine cameras, but , at the prices you were quoted, they are not bargains. A Toyo 45A, at $695 is probably a well- worn older model. The Horseman FA, at $1200, is a steep price to pay for your first LF field camera. Both cameras have minimal bellows extensions (in the 300mm. range).

I realize that you stated your preferrence for a metal flat bed folding field camera, but consider a lighter weight wooden field camera with a longer bellows, additional features, and more movement capability. For example, a 4x5 Shen Hao can be purchased, brand new, for less than the price of the older Toyo 45A you mentioned. Use the money you save to purchase a good previously owned lens in the 135-180 focal length, as your first lens. You can add a 90 wide angle lens and/or a 210 or 300 long lens, later.

As always, I recommend calling Jim (and only Jim) at Midwest Photo Exchange (www.mpex,com). He can package a Shen Hao, along with a fine previously owned lens, at a price that will fit your budget. He is knowledgeable, helpful, and easy to deal with.

[Sharon S.]

Wouldn't some of this be dependent upon which lenses you have? Some of the field cameras don't seem to be able to handle lenses with large rear elements like a Schneider 90mm SA XL. It's my favorite lens and I'd hate to give it up because a field camera couldn't handle it. I'm curious.

Dimbulb

[Armin Seeholzer]

Hi

I own a Horseman HF the pre version of the FA and I like it alot!
But I'm shure it is not for everyone but it is a very nice camera. But I would recommend a Linhof Technika V or IV or even better a Master Tech. It is larger and heavier then the Horseman but more universal!
It is of course expensiver but its the only field wich is really universal and precise and it holds for some lifetimes!

[Edward (Halifax,NS)]

Can anyone think of a reason why a Fujinon W 135mm f/5.6 wouldn't be a good first lens? Fuji lenses have a reputation of being as sharp at the other 3 main manufacturers and it has unreal image circle (228mm). They are also quite affordable ($300-$350).

[Linas Kudzma]

Cindy,

I second Edwards suggestion of a Fujinon W 135mm f/5.6. This was my first lens for 4x5 and is still my favorite. Affordable, super sharp, covers up to 5x7 and slightly wide/normal remains my most used focal length.

[steve simmons]

Here is some reading that will hlp

Using the View Camera is a book I wrot

or

User's Guide o the View Camera by Jim Stone

and some of the free articles on the View amera magazine web site

www.vewcamera.com

and hit the Free Articles link on te home page

steve simmons