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Thread: Flash powders, an education.

  1. #11
    Drew Bedo's Avatar
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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    Richard:


    Do your concerns also apply to any discussion of the Daguerreotype process using Bromine based "quick" sensitizer and Mercury bath developing? Again; I mention nitrocellulose in wet plate photography. Collodian , also called "gun cotton" is explosive under the right conditions . . .as is flash powder. I bought Iodine crystals from Photographers Formulary a few years ago and had to fill out a form from the DEA—which surprised me as I would have thought the BATF would be more interested. What about the health risks inherent in ULF photography such as crushed foot injuries and hernias? I know a guy who had a heart attack while lugging around a Deardorff V8 . . .not even ULF.

    There are whole forums devoted to firearms, reloading bullets and hunting that don't seem to have any problems . . .how is that? There are even auction sites for these items. IThose sites discuss subjects that actually involve the intent to commit violence downrange, be it a bulls eye target or game animal. Here on Large format Photography the explicit and implied object of every thread is creating an image.
    Drew Bedo
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    There are only three types of mounting flanges; too big, too small and wrong thread!

  2. #12
    Jac@stafford.net's Avatar
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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    Quote Originally Posted by BetterSense View Post
    IBTL

    Somewhere I have an on-film comparison between my Niko speedlight, Novatron, and some flash powder. It is very interesting and I will try to dig it up.
    I look forward to that! I sometimes use big Edison/Mazda-base flashbulbs which produce an enormous amount of nice, soft light. Someday it would be interesting to compare to modern light sources.

    Speaking of dangers - I have two bulb types that just plain scare me. One is the Mazda 75, another is the type that has a duration of 2.7 seconds. I'd have to dig to find the brand/model number on packages of the later. Oh, I wear armored mechanics' gloves when I mount them.

  3. #13

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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    As a black powder reloader for 35 years, a wetplate collodion photographer for 8, and a industrial/Safety training manager for a long, long time I can speak to the concern. No one knows who is reading internet forums. Some people are professional, reasonable, and cautious. Some are loose canons (no pun), ready to try anything for a bang (no pun). I believe in free speech. But exploring the most dangerous solution "for fun" is a little irresponsible. I don't post reloading formulas on my gun forums for the same reason. You don't know who is going to follow your instructions, or how well. Learning to make flash powder is a solution looking for a problem.

    Already, there are myths being bandied about in this thread:

    1. Myth: Collodion is guncotton, and therefore explosive. Wrong. Collodion is made from gun cotton, which then becomes a different substance with different properties. No one makes collodion from scratch (guncotton), they buy it in safe, medical grade form. It and it's fumes are merely flammable, just like the gasoline in your lawn mower in the hot garage.

    2. Myth: Wetplate photographers used flash powder a lot. Wrong. I believe this misconception comes from all the Western movies that show an outdoor scene with the photographer holding a flashtray. You don't need a flash for outdoor photography. And you don't want to fill an indoor space with a plume of choking smoke. Or with fizzling sparks ready to burn down the town. Wetplate studios had skylights, not flash powder. You will have to look at hundreds, perhaps thousands of wetplate tintypes before you'll find one taken with a flash.

    3. Myth: Because I'm a smart guy, everyone on the forum is smart and careful. Wrong. See opening paragraph.

    Talk about it all you want. Next we need a post on "how to make Silver Nitrate from scrap silver" which comes up on the Collodion.com forum from time to time. And I shut it down because it's one of the most deadly things you could try to do in the home. And when I list the dangers, the same thing happens as this thread - the original poster tries to use every rationale from freedom of speech to native intelligence to justify a long, instructional post on how to flirt with suicide. Though you can buy safe Silver Nitrate for the same cost as scrap silver, some have even put helpful youtube videos on the process, without mentioning the extreme, life threatening hazzard.

  4. #14
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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    I will have to go digging thru negatives to find my flash tests.
    Science is what we understand well enough to explain to a computer. Art is everything else we do.
    --A=B by Petkovšek et. al.

  5. #15

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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    And if you search this forum, you'll find the topic comes up once a year of so:

    http://www.largeformatphotography.in...l=1#post423639

    As you'll see, I'm not opposed to trying to use flash powder, I'm opposed to trying to make it.

  6. #16
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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    I located a scan of my original flash powder test. This is the same film strip contact printed twice...the top printing exposure was much longer than the lower one. The hsecond frame from the left was a dud and should be ignored.

    This test also shows off the extreme latitude of TMY.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	powderflash.jpg 
Views:	45 
Size:	37.2 KB 
ID:	113903

    http://chazmiller.com/images/powderflash.jpg
    Science is what we understand well enough to explain to a computer. Art is everything else we do.
    --A=B by Petkovšek et. al.

  7. #17

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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    There was recently a thread about flash powders, I found it very interesting and then it got to the end of the thread and found that a few people were afraid of the technique and decided that it should be closed.

    This post is not meant to agitate the moderators, but it is meant to remind people about who we are and what we do.

    Every day we as film photographers go into the darkroom and safely handle very VERY dangerous chemicals, chemicals that can cause all sorts of health risks including death, we do this day in and day out to create beautiful and unique imagery. Many of these chemicals (like Rodinal and Pyro developers) are ORM-D (is that acronym right?) classified for shipping.

    And yet no one seems to complain about that, however, for some reason flash powder is scary to everyone?

    I want to kind of remind people that this is a forum that is about sharing information, information that is being lost and is slowly dying out because all the people that have the information are also dying out, and if we don't pass on this valuable information, the details will be lost forever.

    When I was about 11, my father, who is a chemist, taught me how to from scratch using household chemicals, create a substance that would get hot enough to ignite magnesium powder, and the only thing you needed to start the reaction was a single drop of water.

    Did we have fun? Yes. Was it dangerous? Yes. Did I learn something valuable? Yes. Did we put a hole in the cement of the backyard patio? Yes.... But did we have fun? And did we learn something? Yes yes yes.

    Did I end up making bombs and blowing stuff up? No of course not, because I was also taught to be safe and to use the knowledge properly.

    There are a million places on the Internet where someone could find info in order to use it to make something dangerous for an evil purpose, (I mean everyone knows about the "anarchists cookbook" that's been around since the mid 90's) and I highly doubt that simply sharing information about flash powder could somehow be more dangerous to anyone than half of the other stuff on the Internet, and I think limiting the sharing of information especially of historic value, is a dangerous path, and one that history has shown can lead to very very bad ends... It's a slippery slope, this censorship of information...

    Anyway, I will end this post by saying ...

    Any of the following information that may be contained within this thread posting and subsequent posts, are for informational purposes, and to aid in the techniques of creating photographic imagery using traditional methods, and should only be used for that purpose and that purpose alone, you should also acknowledge that by reading such information you will not hold liable the forum or any members thereof participating or not participating if you should happen to cause injury to yourself or others in the use of such information.

    By reading further you agree to the above.

    That should cover the forum for any liability concerns...

    Anyway, so if the moderators would permit me to continue? Please?

    Would anyone share some imagery they created using flash powders? Any technique and lessons learned personally? And only share formulas if you feel comparable doing so, and with a rider like the above so the mods can stay happy.

    I would really be interested in seeing some modern imagery using flash powder as the light source.

    Thanks.

    ~Stone
    Stone, if we are thinking of the same thread, there was one where a very poorly informed person kept persistently posting advice ranging from bad to downright stupid and likely to land the follower in a burn/trauma unit.
    Hopefully that sort of imbecility will not afflict this thread, 'cause I'm interested too.
    One man's Mede is another man's Persian.

  8. #18
    Richard Johnson
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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Bedo View Post
    Richard:

    ....There are whole forums devoted to firearms, reloading bullets and hunting that don't seem to have any problems . . .how is that? There are even auction sites for these items. IThose sites discuss subjects that actually involve the intent to commit violence downrange, be it a bulls eye target or game animal. Here on Large format Photography the explicit and implied object of every thread is creating an image.
    That's their prerogative and I do not know what protections or risk they are taking. But why should we expose the private owner of this forum, who does us a good service through his generosity, to the potential of a frivolous yet expensive lawsuit?

    Again the problem is not the well-intended but the legal system in the USA that allows such suits to happen, plus the idiots who blow themselves and others up.

  9. #19
    Drew Bedo's Avatar
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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    If this topic is such a threat to the forum, the owner/admin can make a policy on it. If a topic is declared off-limits I am sure that it won't come up too often. If a poster persists with a forbidden topic the admins can ban the poster. The wuestionis; Is this really worth making such an issue over? If the answer is yes, then ban the topic. We are not dealing with an illegal act or a repugnant lifestype (whatever that may be).

    If someone persisted in posting images that were repugnant to the owner, I am sure that action would be taken.
    Drew Bedo
    www.quietlightphoto.com
    http://www.artsyhome.com/author/drew-bedo




    There are only three types of mounting flanges; too big, too small and wrong thread!

  10. #20

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    Re: Flash powders, an education.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Johnson View Post
    That's their prerogative and I do not know what protections or risk they are taking. But why should we expose the private owner of this forum, who does us a good service through his generosity, to the potential of a frivolous yet expensive lawsuit?

    Again the problem is not the well-intended but the legal system in the USA that allows such suits to happen, plus the idiots who blow themselves and others up.
    Let me guess, you are a lawyer? 4 posts and you have nothing but negative things to say?

    Let's get back on track please.
    Signature deleted as to not offend certain people

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