Alt-Process Prints from Digital Negatives or Positives

[Michael Mutmansky]

I like this ring around method as it is more suited to my background in printing… Once I get the neg into the range I want then I will use split printing, lith printing to control the contrast and density in Silver , and I think
I will move to the Developer control contrast method - where I have five different jugs of developer with different contrast capabilities.

Bob

Bob,

This may work for you, but I would caution that you are going to have a few problems to deal with as you take this approach.

The first is that the dichromate method will definitely give you a different response curve, but that it will also push things off the highlight end. Depending on what you are looking for, you may struggle to keep the highlights where you need them for the image.

Second, the speed of the print changes with the dichromate, so you will have to develop a translation for the speed to take this approach as well. It doesn't take much going from a #1 to a #3 or #5 but it does start moving, and will also cause you some difficulty with the highlights (it gets slower as you add restrainer, as I'm sure you know.)

What this results in is a shorter tonal scale but it doesn't really change the relationship of midtone to shadow or highlight in the manner that applying a gamma adjustment in PS (or a custom curve in PS) will do.

Your approach may work well, but I think it would be easier to make adjustments in PS than trying to do this through dichromate.


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As for the tests of the grain with PVA, I have some comments based on my tests so far... These are preliminary, and I don't have photos to show yet. I tried to take some with my phone, but you can't see the effects in those well enough to post them.

1. The PVA seems to do a better job of avoiding staining with the FA-EW at 2 coats of gum. At one coat, there was no apparent difference in the stain level. After 2 coats, I can see a very subtle amount of difference between the two PVA coats and the gelatin. It's subtle, but present.

2. The above comment was using good, non-staining pigments. I tried a comparable test with a pigment that will stain, and all hell broke loose... The PVA coats (both 1:2 and 1:4) have noticeably more grittiness in the stain than the gelatin. All thee stained, but the gelatin is quite smooth and the other two are gritty and may be a very similar effect to what you describe.

So this makes me think I need to test a higher percentage gelatin mix (I did 2.5%). I should probably test 3% and 4% to see if there is a difference in performance.

The fact that the PVA looked cleaner in the print with the non-staining pigments but much worse in the one with the staining pigments makes me think that it will work just fine if you are very careful of the pigments you put in the mix. If you use pigments that are prone to staining or possibly granulation, you may end up with a more gritty end result, especially with the PVA.

Here's a link to some info on watercolor pigment characteristics (not that you need it, but others may benefit):

http://www.janeblundellart.com/chara...tercolour.html



---Michael

[Erik Larsen]

Playing around yesterday. Tri color gum over pt/pd. 8x10 print on platine. Pva 1+3 size. Forgive the iPhone photo of the print please.

[LesleyNowlin]

Here is a question about what is a good replacement Epson photo printer for digital negatives. I searched the group for posts on this topic and couldn't find any information. My Epson R2400 (purchased in 2006) is still ok but I expect it to give up the ghost in the next year or so. Works well with Pictorico OHP. It is my understanding that the current similar replacement model (i.e. 13 inch prints) is the Epson P600. Ted Forbes has a YouTube channel called "The Art of Photography" and he does weekly videos on various photo topics. His most recent is a review of the Epson P600. In that video he claims that the P600 does NOT print film such as Pictorico. Does anyone have more insight on this. The big question obviously is what decent new 13 inch Epson printer does one get to make digital negatives with, aside from buying used or a non current model (e.g. the R3000) which likely will soon be out of stock.

Hi there! I'm a professional photographer specializing in Platinum/Palladium on Vellum w/digital negatives. I have had the hardest time with this digital neg printing on P600! I had an Epson 2400, but it got old and didn't feel like fixing it. (I should have kept it though and just fixed it!) I then purchased an Epson Artisan 1430, and the inks did not provide the detail I wanted. So, then I purchased an Epson SCP600. It worked great with Pictorico Premium OHP for about 1 week. Then all of a sudden it started printing only a line on the side. I wasted about 30 sheets. Contacted Epson, they were no help at all, but basically told me that the media is not being read/seen. I then read a post on here that makes me think the Pictorico Ultra Premium OHP might work. I've ordered some and waiting to see if this works. Otherwise, I'm not sure what printer to use! I'm hoping the posts by Erik Larsen are right b/c I'd really like to get back to printing Platinum. This digital printer stuff stresses me out. Have you had any luck printing on a new printer? And if so, can you tell me which one?

[Erik Larsen]

Hi there! I'm a professional photographer specializing in Platinum/Palladium on Vellum w/digital negatives. I have had the hardest time with this digital neg printing on P600! I had an Epson 2400, but it got old and didn't feel like fixing it. (I should have kept it though and just fixed it!) I then purchased an Epson Artisan 1430, and the inks did not provide the detail I wanted. So, then I purchased an Epson SCP600. It worked great with Pictorico Premium OHP for about 1 week. Then all of a sudden it started printing only a line on the side. I wasted about 30 sheets. Contacted Epson, they were no help at all, but basically told me that the media is not being read/seen. I then read a post on here that makes me think the Pictorico Ultra Premium OHP might work. I've ordered some and waiting to see if this works. Otherwise, I'm not sure what printer to use! I'm hoping the posts by Erik Larsen are right b/c I'd really like to get back to printing Platinum. This digital printer stuff stresses me out. Have you had any luck printing on a new printer? And if so, can you tell me which one?

Hi Lesley, welcome to the forum. I've had no problems with the Epson P600 for digital negatives. I've only used the pictorico ultra premium film however. I have no experience with other transparency film so I can't help you there. The ink seems denser with the p600 so you might have to adjust your color density compared to the other Epson inks in previous printers.
I have heard of people taping a small leader made of paper to the film to get the printer to recognize the film.
Best of luck getting back on track!

[LesleyNowlin]

Here is a question about what is a good replacement Epson photo printer for digital negatives. I searched the group for posts on this topic and couldn't find any information. My Epson R2400 (purchased in 2006) is still ok but I expect it to give up the ghost in the next year or so. Works well with Pictorico OHP. It is my understanding that the current similar replacement model (i.e. 13 inch prints) is the Epson P600. Ted Forbes has a YouTube channel called "The Art of Photography" and he does weekly videos on various photo topics. His most recent is a review of the Epson P600. In that video he claims that the P600 does NOT print film such as Pictorico. Does anyone have more insight on this. The big question obviously is what decent new 13 inch Epson printer does one get to make digital negatives with, aside from buying used or a non current model (e.g. the R3000) which likely will soon be out of stock.

I have had a tough time with printing Pictorico on the P600. It was working fine and then decided after about a week to go through the motions of printing but not have anything print on the film. I think (from all the research I've done) it's not sensing or reading the media/film. Since reading all of your comments I have decided to purchase some Pictorico Ultra like Erik Larsen suggests, and I'll get back to you on the progress.

[Michael Mutmansky]

Is there a setting to test for the paper? On my old 4800, there is a setting in the controls somewhere that does this if I recall... You have to turn it off to print consistently with film.

I'm not 100% positive, but I seem to recall this.

Let me say that I have one of the P800's now (still have the 4800 that I am using for the digital negatives), and I didn't see an option for this in there.

Also note that I have heard rumblings that Epson is actively moving to stop people from using 3rd part inks or ink blends in their newer printers, so to ability to make a good quality digital negative may begin to disappear with newer printers. I hope this is not the case, but if it does come true, I'll have to stock up on the older 4800's or something like that. I am using a custom blend of 7 black inks in the printer to very good effect. I use Epson K3 inks, just mix them from PK, LK, and LLK to produce a good incremental density progression. Using QTR for printing.


---Michael

[LesleyNowlin]

I will definitely try this. I'm not sure where to find "test for paper" but I'll search. Of course Epson doesn't want their precious printers hacked. They want to make as much money as possible w/their inks.


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[LesleyNowlin]

Hi Lesley, welcome to the forum. I've had no problems with the Epson P600 for digital negatives. I've only used the pictorico ultra premium film however. I have no experience with other transparency film so I can't help you there. The ink seems denser with the p600 so you might have to adjust your color density compared to the other Epson inks in previous printers.
I have heard of people taping a small leader made of paper to the film to get the printer to recognize the film.
Best of luck getting back on track!

Hi Erik!
Thank you for the info. I just tried it on the Ultra Premium Pictorico and no luck!! I'm not sure what to do. I don't have time to experiment right now, but can you give me more info about the "small leader made of paper to film" b/c I've tried taping a piece of paper to the back of the film, but the printer head hits the sides and the paper gets jammed. Do you think changing the color density would help? I'm not sure how it would, but if you think it's worth a shot...I'm willing to try anything!

[LesleyNowlin]

Hi Erik!
Thank you for the info. I just tried it on the Ultra Premium Pictorico and no luck!! I'm not sure what to do. I don't have time to experiment right now, but can you give me more info about the "small leader made of paper to film" b/c I've tried taping a piece of paper to the back of the film, but the printer head hits the sides and the paper gets jammed. Do you think changing the color density would help? I'm not sure how it would, but if you think it's worth a shot...I'm willing to try anything!

Also, would you be willing to share your settings? I just changed the color density to see if it would help...it does not.

[Erik Larsen]

Also, would you be willing to share your settings? I just changed the color density to see if it would help...it does not.

Hi Lesley, bummer it's not working for you. Here's my settings I use. The color density should have no bearing on this problem. Maybe try taping a piece of plain paper to the back of the film and see if it might get the printer to accept the film? I haven't tried that because my printer seems to work where others do not for some reason.
Perhaps try different paper types settings if you haven't already? Good luck, I hope you get it worked out!