Zone VI, Shen Hao, Tachihara, Chamonix, Oh Brother!

[Doremus Scudder]

Let me chime in here as well.

I own Wista DXs, a Woodman and a later larger (real) Zone VI camera made by Richard Ritter. I have also looked at the Chamonix and Shen Hao models.

First, the ones I own: In the States, I hike extensively with my Wista DX. With recessed lens boards I can shoot down to 75mm (maybe even 65mm, I don't own one, however) and easily up to 240mm. With a top-hat lensboard I use my 300mm Nikkor M on the Wistas with no problems, but cannot focus closer than 5-6 feet. The movements on the DX include front rise, tilt and swing, back tilt, swing and shift. Bellows are 300mm. It is lightweight and compact and folds up with a smaller lens mounted easily (I leave a 135mm or my Ektar 203mm mounted usually). I own two of these and they are my "go-to" field cameras. Using "point-and-tilt" to get more rise than the front rise alone I can easily vignette my 90mm Super Angulon f/8. Warning: the Wista DXII is similar to the DX but lacks the shift feature (so did the Wista Zone VI cameras if I recall). I would not want a camera without shift somewhere.

My Woodman is even lighter than the Wista DX and is the camera I use in Europe. It will not take recessed boards, but I can use the 90mm on a flat board easily. It has 300mm of bellows and handles up to 240mm easily on a flat board. 300mm with a top-hat board. Movements are similar to the Wista but the shift is on the front standard and the back tilts are a little more limited. That said, I do a heck of a lot of architecturals here in Vienna with the Woodman and it performs fine for the most part. I can only think of one instance when I ran out of rise, even with "point-and-tilt" due to the limited back tilt. The Woodman will not fold up with a lens mounted, making the kit a little bigger. That said, I carry a small rolling/backpack carry-on hybrid pack with the Woodman, five lenses, two sets of six filters, 6-8 filmholders, meter and accessories on my back on my bicycle easily.

The "real" Richard Ritter Zone VI camera is a fuller-featured camera with longer bellows and more extensive movements (the same as other wood folders, front rise, tilt and swing, rear tilt and swing and shift on one standard, just more shift and rise). It, however, is significantly heavier and bulkier than the Wista DX or the Woodman. It usually stays in the car and gets used for shots relatively close to the car. The advantage is the ability to use a 450mm lens (although I had to do a few modifications on it to hold the bellows out that far!). The downside is the weight, especially if I want to pack the 450mm lens as well. It's pack weighs almost twice as much as the lumbar pack I use for the Wista kit. Sure, it has a lot more in it, but I don't like to carry it that far. It has interchangeable bellows if you can find the bag bellows for it. I've modified mine to take recessed Technika boards, but otherwise you'll need flat boards and a bag bellows to be able to use any movements on lenses 90mm and shorter.

If I were buying a new field camera, I'd look at the Chamonix 45n-2 (the 45n-1 had some issues with Fresnel placement; if you plan on only using a plain ground glass, then it would be fine too. If you like a Fresnel, then the 45n-2 is the way to go). The issue is the way the front standard mounts and how the tilt and rise are together on one control. I'd have to handle one to decide. The Shen Hao PTB is similar to the Chamonix in this respect. Both these cameras are really light (3lbs!), and the fiddleyness of the front movements may well be worth the portability advantage.

The Shen Hao TZ is a more conventional design, weighs 4.7 lbs and would be similar to a Wista/Tachi/Woodman but has significantly longer bellows, enabling the use of a 300mm lens on a flat board easily. The HZX is larger, a bit heavier and offers more of everything; bellows draw, movements, etc. I believe all the Shen Hao models now come with universal bellows, which should make using movements with shorter lenses easier. I would seriously look at the TZ if I were in the market.

My recommendations: I love my Wista DX. If you need lightweight and can live without a 300mm lens (or one on a top-hat board) then this is a super camera. The Tachi and Woodman would be in the same category, but don't fold up with a lens mounted.

If you need more bellows draw and still want to stay lightweight, look at the Chamonix and Shen Hao models. You'll have to decide if the front standard arrangement on the Chamonix and the PTB are worth the lighter weight. A TZ would be a nice compromise.

Since you have "heavy" cameras with full features already, I'd advise against one of the larger Shen Hao or Zone VI cameras, on the basis of weight alone. You seem to have that base covered already. They are, however, fine tools and if you need to use a 360mm or longer lens, they will handle that.

Many like metal folding cameras. I don't personally, but it is more a weight issue than anything else. I treat my gear with care and wood cameras have served me well. If you need something significantly more rugged (bulletproof!) then a metal folder might be a choice.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

[Jmarmck]

Thanks Doremus. That was very helpful. I think you are right about the weight issue which will help with the model selection. Thank you very much.
I think the Shen Hao may have a slight advantage. But the Chamonix and Zone VI are still candidates.

I have to wait another 10 days before I can view the for sale section here. Irritating.

[Jim Jones]

My Inba Ikeda (similar to the Tachihara) is very light and beautiful, almost too pretty to use in the field. It accepts a 65mm S-K Super Angulon on a flat board, and lenses up to about 250mm. It can't be folded with a lens attached. Movements have always been adequate. The advantage of light weight over the competition is negligible when the weight of the entire kit is considered.

For handling a camera in the dark, consider one of the LED lights with a headband.

[Regular Rod]

Thanks Doremus. That was very helpful. I think you are right about the weight issue which will help with the model selection. Thank you very much.
I think the Shen Hao may have a slight advantage. But the Chamonix and Zone VI are still candidates.

I have to wait another 10 days before I can view the for sale section here. Irritating.

What happens when you click on New Posts ?

RR

[Jmarmck]

What happens when you click on New Posts ?

RR

I don't see anything indicating a For Sale board. I clicked on a link in another thread leading to some gear for sale. I got a message that I had to be a member for a month before I could access that board.

[Alan Gales]

I don't see anything indicating a For Sale board. I clicked on a link in another thread leading to some gear for sale. I got a message that I had to be a member for a month before I could access that board.

The rule that you need to be a member for a month is to keep down spam.


You are going to find that all the cameras that you mentioned have their fans. There is no perfect camera and what appeals to one person will not appeal to another because we are all different.

I bought a Tachihara because I read the favorable review from Ken Rockwell. It's a great camera for what it was designed to do and everything Ken says it is. I paid $650.00 for mine brand new. I looked into the Shen Hao and thought it was real nice but favored the Tachi for myself. Since I bought my camera the prices have gone up on Tachiharas, Shen Hao has more models and Chamonix has entered the mix.

I have never handled a Shen Hao or Chamonix but if I were to buy new today I would seriously look at the Chamonix. I like how light it is and how rigid the camera is. It is said to compare very favorably to metal cameras in rigidity. The one draw-back to the Chamonix is the need to screw the front standard down into the camera bed. This design takes a little bit longer to set up but keeps the camera weight down.

I recommend picking up a used camera and using it and learning what you like. If you buy right you can always sell later for close to what you paid and then buy the camera that most suits you. Any money that you may lose just figure as a cheap rental fee. Most of us don't keep our first camera. I didn't.

[Pete Watkins]

I'll go along with the Wista DX recomendations. I've had mine since the 1990's and if I need a light camera that has all the movements that I've ever needed and can be used (at a squeeze) with a 65mm lens, OK the movements are very limited but I did not use a recessed board, the 45DX is the one. Read about 4x5's and consider how often you would want to go over 240mm (or 300 with a top hat board). I have other cameras, a 4x5/5x7 Ansco (no front tilt and to be honest it looks good and that's why it's still here). A 4x5/5x7 B&J, great for 5x7, all the movements I've ever needed but can't take a 90mm lens. I also have, and take into the field, a 4x5 Sinar Norma with an 8x10 back and it's gods gift but not light. I have the shutter so I can use barrel lenses but if it's set up for much over 150mm in the field it weighs a ton.
Anyway the Wista looks great as well as doing the job!
Pete.

[Colin Robertson]

I've had the same Shen Hao 5x4 (my first LF camera, by the way) for 7 or 8 years now.
Not too heavy, enough movement for me, bellows could be longer (bought a 360 tele, problem solved). Maybe there are 'better' cameras, but I know this one inside out. It's like driving the same car for years, or using the same darkroom. You tune in. The kit becomes invisible to you because you know it.
Time and money spent researching and trading cameras could be time and money spent shooting, and buying film.
Are you planning to work as a pro? Are you a very high volume shooter? If not, and like most here, you are a recreational shooter buy the camera you feel most drawn to- they'll all do the job. If you really hate it then trade it.
The amount you might lose certainly doesn't compare to the depreciation many people seem happy to swallow on an automobile, or spend on a holiday where they have nothing to show for it but a tan.
Jump in!

[Peter Lewin]

Jmarmck: First, I think Doremus's response was excellent and comprehensive; while I have never met the gentleman, his advice in this forum never fails to stand out. Out of curiosity I took a look at the current offers on the KEH website. KEH is a dealer whom many of us trust; not the lowest prices, but a real business, where you can talk on the phone, return items, etc. They listed two of the cameras we have discussed, a Calumet Woodfield (Tachihara) in the $400s, and a "real" ZoneVI in the $600s (I couldn't tell from the photo whether it was a Wisner or one of Richard Ritter's Vermont ZoneVIs, but I think both are equal in workmanship; as I remember - hazily - Fred took over the manufacture after either a personal disagreement with Ron, or when Ron went out of business, but the two versions of the camera are very similar). Doremus really hit the nail on the head: if you want the most lightweight portability, the Wistas and Tachiharas are the ones you want; if you don't mind some more weight and bulk, the ZoneVI is the more flexible and better-made camera. Personally, I fell under Fred Picker's ZoneVI mystique, and owned (still do) many of his products. My darkroom pretty much uses everything in the old ZoneVI catalog! Which is to say, I would probably gravitate towards the ZoneVI, but the Tachi is smaller, easier to pack, and might be a little easier to set up in the dark, although I suspect that is close to even, unless Doremus, whose Wistas are very similar in design to the Tachis, wishes to add his real-world experience in setting up both.

[papac]

I have a "real" Zone VI and happy with it. Good movements, easy to handle, not to heavy and easy to pack but there are things not mentioned that you might want to take in consideration. You can´t have lens on when you fold it and the back is a spring load back so you are limited in what you can put on the back. 6x12, roll film, reflex viewer and so on. I would like to put a 6x12 roll films back on but thats the only thing I miss, otherwise I´m more the happy with my buy.