Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 24

Thread: The Chemical rays of light

  1. #1
    Maris Rusis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Noosa, Australia.
    Posts
    1,215

    The Chemical rays of light

    I was prompted by a comment from Jim Collum in the Alternative Prints from Digital Negatives and Positives thread to unpack the phrase "the Chemical rays of light" used by Sir John Herschel in 1839 when he invented the word Photography and explained what he meant by it. First, part of the manuscript of Herschel's lectern notes at that momentous presentation:


    "Photography" comes first and then the definition of the word is given next "or the application of the Chemical rays of light to the purpose of pictorial representation"

    In 1839 no one knew what light was.

    Long before, in 1690, Christiaan Huygens said light was travelling system of waves but Isaac Newton insisted that light was a stream of tiny particles. The argument lay unresolved.

    In 1800 William Herschel (John Herschel's father) used a thermometer to measure the heat of various colours of a solar spectrum. Red was hotter than blue but to his surprise a region beyond the red, where nothing could be seen, was hotter still. There was something out there, perhaps the "heat rays of light", or maybe it was not light at all because there was nothing visible.

    Inspired by William Herschel's example Johann Ritter in 1801 decided to explore the solar spectrum using the known property of light to darken silver chloride paper. Ritter found red light did not cause darkening but as he moved closer to blue the darkening increased. Again surprisingly, maximum darkening happened beyond the blue end of the spectrum. Could these be "chemical rays" that populated some of the visible spectrum but mainly lay beyond it? Using the reasonable supposition that if it couldn't be seen it wasn't light, the "stuff" beyond blue could be something entirely different and strange.

    Thomas Young, the famous British polymath, observed, measured, and mathematically analysed optical diffraction effects in 1801. He concluded that light was indeed a wave and that he had actually determined wavelengths; accurately as it turned out. This unleashed a storm of controversy as the pre-eminence of British science was based on the majesty of Isaac Newton and it wouldn't do to prove Newton wrong on anything. Many thought that diffraction was merely the jostling of light particles and Young's wavelengths were merely the size of the particles themselves.

    Sir John Herschel himself had found that an image perfectly focussed by eye would be slightly out of focus when recorded by a sensitive surface. There seemed to be a "visual focus" and a "chemical focus" quite close together and the difference between them varied a bit from lens to lens.

    Less formal observations had already established that light had many other properties. Strong light would cause fabrics to fade but cause skin to darken. Light getting in the eyes would cause the sensation of sight. A lighted window would attract an indoor potplant to grow toward it.

    So what was Sir John Herschel going to say in his lecture of March 14, 1839 in front of the Royal Society? His audience included top scientists, industrialists, millionaire aristocrats, and influential politicians some of whom rejected "infrared", "ultraviolet", "light waves", "diffraction", etc as non-Newtonian and an affront to British superiority.

    Herschel trying to be as uncontroversial as possible said "the Chemical rays of light". He wasn't going to argue about what light was and which of it's "properties" was legitimate. He invoked only the property responsible for chemical changes; whatever that was.

    A lot happened after 1839. James Clerk Maxwell in 1862 established light as an electromagnetic wave. Max Planck chopped light into quanta in 1900. Albert Einstein brought back light particles in 1905 and got a Nobel Prize for it. Richard Feynman the great American physicist formalised the quantisation of light in his 1965 Quantum Electrodynamics. And even more recently light has lost its individual identity by being combined with the weak nuclear force in Quantum Chromodynamics.

    Given all that I say there is a strong case for identifying photography with its original principles. Doing so eliminates at a stroke all the controversies, contradictions, ambiguities, and ad hoc patch up jobs that try to shoehorn computer print-outs into photography, or digital negatives, or scanners, or film writers, or whatever is next in trying to get on the photography band wagon.

    I believe that "the Chemical rays of light" is the best sword photography has, it is sharp, it cuts cleanly, and it should be swung freely at pretenders.
    Photography:first utterance. Sir John Herschel, 14 March 1839 at the Royal Society. "...Photography or the application of the Chemical rays of light to the purpose of pictorial representation,..".

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Austin TX
    Posts
    2,049

    Re: The Chemical rays of light

    Maris, nice logical and historical buildup on the nature of light, but as a "chemical ray" the conclusion leaves me a bit dumbfounded. In this day and age which one is the pretender?

    Nate Potter, Austin TX.

  3. #3
    Land-Scapegrace Heroique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Seattle, Wash.
    Posts
    2,929

    Re: The Chemical rays of light

    Quote Originally Posted by Maris Rusis View Post
    I believe that "the Chemical rays of light" is the best sword photography has, it is sharp, it cuts cleanly, and it should be swung freely at pretenders.
    What can we say so Photography will lay down the sword?

    I think we need a mediator who's familiar with both sides of this issue.

    If we don't find a compromise, and fast, someone's going to cry.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jul 1998
    Location
    Lund, Sweden
    Posts
    2,214

    Re: The Chemical rays of light

    One interesting addition to the timeline is that Maxwell's first great set of experiments, the ones which made his name as a scientist, proved that Thomas Young's theory of human vision was correct, and, as a by-product, threw suspicion on the eye as a judge of the properties of electromagnetic radiation.

    But, Maris, you're sailing into waters which are both treacherous and deadly for the purpose you wish them to serve. The more we have learned about how molecules capture light, the less difference there seems to be between them and semiconductors. Charge excitation between the orbitals of organic molecules has exactly the same properties as charge excitation between the energy bands of a crystal semiconductor. Sensitisers work in almost exactly the same way as dopants. Charge separation is necessary, but whether it is achieved through a crystal field stabilising ions or a designed-in potential gradient stabilising electrons or holes is largely irrelevant.

    Your 'argument' is based upon a selective promotion of small parts of nineteenth century science over the whole accumulated body of knowledge that we possess today. It is purely semantic – a distinction you are welcome to make in your own personal work and thought, but which has no basis whatsoever in the scientific work you quote in supposed support.

    If you really want to learn, you should read Gurney and Mott's paper describing the formation of the latent image from 1938. It is no accident that Neville Mott later won the Nobel Prize for his contributions to Solid State Physics. The paper is available free on the Royal Society's website:

    http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.o....full.pdf+html

  5. #5
    joseph
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Chapel Hill NC
    Posts
    1,401

    Re: The Chemical rays of light

    Quote Originally Posted by Struan Gray View Post
    But, Maris, you're sailing into waters which are both treacherous and deadly ...
    If you embark on a voyage today, chances are that the liner will use the term 'set sail' in their brochure. I think it might be unbecoming to argue about the lack of sails if the destination is the important part of the journey. Similarly, if the ship is docked to starboard rather than port, arguing the toss might seem comical to a disinterested bystander.

    Language is in constant flux, and although I hate the dismissive, superior, churlish tones of the word 'fauxtography' it can't be denied that it is a word, a word that pigeonholes the utterer as much as that which they mean to describe.

    This topic keeps coming back; by the strict definition presented above, perhaps the word 'photography' should only be applied to the 'chemical rays of solar light', as actually written, and which might only apply to pictures taken outdoors using processes sensitive to anything but visible radiation, if those 'chemical rays' determine 'chemical focus', which, after all, are not the same rays that allow visual focus.

    I really don't mind the debate, what I actively dislike is the repeatedly expressed distain for most of the people on the planet. Perhaps those using collodion are the only true 'photographers', but I've hung out with some of those, and most of them seem really grounded and not hung up at all...
    Last edited by jb7; 27-Feb-2014 at 05:37.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jul 1998
    Location
    Lund, Sweden
    Posts
    2,214

    Re: The Chemical rays of light

    My ten foot dinghy once nearly collided with H.M.S. Illustrious. Shouting 'Steam gives way to sail!' was no help at all. Telling the crew they weren't real sailors wouldn't have been too productive either.

    Ditto the distain.

  7. #7
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Albuquerque, Nuevo Mexico
    Posts
    9,864

    Re: The Chemical rays of light

    Unfortunately for those with their finger in the dike, language (including words and their definition) is not static. It evolves.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  8. #8
    jp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    5,631

    Re: The Chemical rays of light

    Quote Originally Posted by Maris Rusis View Post
    Given all that I say there is a strong case for identifying photography with its original principles. Doing so eliminates at a stroke all the controversies, contradictions, ambiguities, and ad hoc patch up jobs that try to shoehorn computer print-outs into photography, or digital negatives, or scanners, or film writers, or whatever is next in trying to get on the photography band wagon.

    I believe that "the Chemical rays of light" is the best sword photography has, it is sharp, it cuts cleanly, and it should be swung freely at pretenders.
    I enjoyed the history and science, but the conclusion is a tiny bit mad; you're eliminating some controversies and replacing it with a controversial claim of your own. If you don't like computers in photography, don't use them.
    Who are the pretenders? I think I know but it's not clearly stated.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    833

    Re: The Chemical rays of light

    I brought this point up in the other thread... but 'Chemical rays of light' originally referred to the UV spectrum. If you're taking everything at it's historic verbatim.. that would rule out pretty much anything done with a lens (at least a modern one). Most optics will filter out the UV spectrum. In fact, given we're being very specific here in the definition of photography.. anything exposed with visible light at all wouldn't be considered photography. It would require using UV pass filters for it to quality.. or an emulsion that was only sensitive to UV light.

  10. #10
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Albuquerque, Nuevo Mexico
    Posts
    9,864

    Re: The Chemical rays of light

    I believe that "the Chemical rays of light" is the best sword photography has, it is sharp, it cuts cleanly, and it should be swung freely at pretenders.
    Photographers have no "sword" except the strength of their imagery. It's the image that makes a photographer, and a finely crafted image can be accomplished by many means including digital or hybrid means. Trying to shoehorn the current definition of photography back into an 1839 definition may make one feel superior to the masses but it is actually totally meaningless-a sword swung at windmills. Analogue is now an alternative process. The people you are referring to are preservationists of photographic processes, no doubt a respectable goal and photographers may choose to use those processes to enhance their images-but the process is the process its not the image.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

Similar Threads

  1. Airport X-rays - opinions
    By butterfly in forum Location & Travel
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 21-Sep-2007, 14:22
  2. Came across this snipet re: X-rays.
    By otzi in forum Location & Travel
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 15-Jul-2007, 11:42
  3. Airport X-Rays, Part II
    By chris jordan in forum Darkroom: Film, Processing & Printing
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 30-May-2005, 15:49
  4. X-Rays and Sheet Film
    By scambug in forum Darkroom: Film, Processing & Printing
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 6-Apr-2002, 00:30
  5. Airport X-Rays and precious film!
    By Kevin V. Blasi in forum Darkroom: Film, Processing & Printing
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 29-Jun-2000, 11:15

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •