Ultralight Hikers

[Drew Wiley]

I have a Goretex sleeping bag (not to be confused with a bivvy sack), not because it will keep rain out (it won't - it's far more breathable than a Goretex parka,
otherwise would be miserable to sleep in), but because I can sleep outdoors in it and dew or frost will almost instantly shake or dry off it. With a conventional bag,
the thing gets wet and can take a lot of sun and lost time before packing up for a day on the trail. ... But Tom... I think there's quite a difference between what
you classify as "freight train" winds and what I do. I been in true hurricane force winds in the Bibler that would shred any of these ultralights to bits in no time flat.
I've even had it happen to me. This distinction is very well known to high-altitude mountaineers.

[goamules]

Sometimes when I read threads like this full of recomendations for titanium coffee presses and carbon fiber walking sticks, I wonder what the ultralight hikers used 100 years ago? 1000 years ago? I read that the silk and wool suit used by the first Everest attempt was actually waterproof, warm and comfortable. I know the Indians and trapper frontiersmen didn't worry about shaving 3 Oz from their kit, or carry much at all. Yes, I like modern materials that are lighter and stronger. But it's been funny when I'm way back in the Gila with my super light stuff, and a few kids come walking by with heavy (but indestructible) plastic canteens. Or the grey bearded guys coming back down with heavy military down bags.... I've used it all, and it all works to some degree. Except for packing foil wrapped potatos, cans of beans, and fifths of liquer, which I learned early on to avoid. And know what a lot of Westerners carried back in the late 1800s through the 1920s, on foot out west? Cans of beans......

[StoneNYC]

Sometimes when I read threads like this full of recomendations for titanium coffee presses and carbon fiber walking sticks, I wonder what the ultralight hikers used 100 years ago? 1000 years ago? I read that the silk and wool suit used by the first Everest attempt was actually waterproof, warm and comfortable. I know the Indians and trapper frontiersmen didn't worry about shaving 3 Oz from their kit, or carry much at all. Yes, I like modern materials that are lighter and stronger. But it's been funny when I'm way back in the Gila with my super light stuff, and a few kids come walking by with heavy (but indestructible) plastic canteens. Or the grey bearded guys coming back down with heavy military down bags.... I've used it all, and it all works to some degree. Except for packing foil wrapped potatos, cans of beans, and fifths of liquer, which I learned early on to avoid. And know what a lot of Westerners carried back in the late 1800s through the 1920s, on foot out west? Cans of beans......

I love carying cans of beans, I used to anyway before I had heavy cameras hah!

I think there were also a LOT more game to catch, with "civilization" happening it's harder to "live off the land" and with rules and regulations it's just not the same in terms of being able to survive with a knife and a match.

But sure, it's possible. Those same survivalists wouldn't be carrying heavy large format cameras without Sherpa or pack animals.

[Drew Wiley]

Garrett - I grew up with Indians whose grandparents were still alive and actually recounted life in the mtns aboriginally. There are some differences between them and us. They were remarkably genetically conditioned for such life due to millennia of living that way, had plenty of their own appropriate technology and knowledge
(think, why did the Vikings starve on Greenland while the Inuit ate well?)... and a lot of important critters they ate even in last century are now extinct. But I did
try living that way myself a number of times, and for shorter durations, rather routinely in the lower canyons. Nodoby knows how many of them froze to death up on
the high passes, but basically the historic tribes commuted up forested canyon and relatively quickly crossed the more negotiable high passes at the Sierra Crest,
much like a horse packer would today if it were not for zoning regulation concerning stock. When one gets way the hell up there and shakes their head at how
someone got to those places in the stone age, then one needs to examine the evidence carefully. For one thing, it's almost never an arrowhead, but an atlatl
point of far more ancient derivation, and probably back from times when the technology itself was geared for extreme cold weather, i.e., prior to the end of the
ice age; and the game itself might have significant differed. At times, the mtn valley routes might have even been filled with glaciers, and crossing up high would
have been easier, just like today when certain rugged areas are actually easier to traverse in winter when snow evens things out. Once had one of those old Indians tell me that nobody could ever starve in the Sierra if they actually new what to eat. I didn't have much luck with that theory myself, but with a fishing pole
or .22 rifle and a book of matches I was generally fine.

[Bill Burk]

Everyone mentions ground cloths but no one seems to use a footprint but me?

You invest in a nice tent and at the time of purchase, pick up a footprint, sure. I'd do it.

But I went in after the fact and thought "hmm I'll get a footprint for my..." and when I saw the price, for something that is meant to protect my already waterproof tent floor from abrasion and dirt... and suddenly the plastic film alternative looked very very good.

[Stephen Willard]

May I ask a question?

Everyone mentions ground cloths but no one seems to use a footprint but me?

I always buy one, and I intend to get one for the MSR Hubba Hubba NX-2 when I purchase it.

[StoneNYC]

I always buy one, and I intend to get one for the MSR Hubba Hubba NX-2 when I purchase it.

I contacted MSR, they don't carry extra tent bags, but are willing to make one extra for me for $30, not bad for a massive company.

I'm sure you do use one, do you ALSO use a ground cloth on top of that?

[Stephen Willard]

Okay, we have covered a lot of stuff on this string including bear spray, tents, lovers, stoves, tripods, and cameras. However, there has been one big omission in large part, and that is a way to change film. There is no lightweight alternative to Readyloads and Quickloads. Of course, if you are shooting formats other than 4x5, then the Readyloads and Quickloads were never an option.

I do not believe that changing film in limp dark bags is viable. I do not believe using a sleeping bag at night is viable because of dust. I do not believe using your tent at night is viable either because moon light in the alpine can shine through the tent particularly ultralight tents.

This leaves us ultralights with a film changing tent as an effective tool. The problem with film changing tents is that you need some kind of table to places them on to get a rigid platform for a smooth level bottom to keep film holders and film from sliding all over the place. Yes, you can place them on the ground and belly down on them, but that is not fun especially for us older guys. Currently, I carry two pieces of plywood and bolting them together to make a table. That is not practical for ultralights if you lack llama power.



The other issue is cleaning film holders. Currently, I am using compressed air. Bringing in cans of compressed air is not light and takes up space. Furthermore, the more you use them for a cleaning session the colder they get and the more the pressure drops. I no long change film at night because the air cans get too cold and have very little air pressure.

Here is what I am going to try. I going to try replacing the compressed air cans with a Kinetronic SW-140 brush. I just bought one from Kinetronic's website for half the price what everyone else is selling them for. I paid $30. The URL is http://www.kinetronics.com/store/wisk1.html.



For the tent I am going to experiment using a series of 2-piece tent poles cut to the length of the long side of my changing tent. I will then attach them to the underside of the tent to form a oven screen grid to create a somewhat rigid platform. I will place velcro on the underside of the tent and on the poles to hold the poles in place. I will probably start out with six poles and add or subtract more as required. Hopefully, the poles will add enough rigidity to replace the plywood and be far lighter and far more portable.

I am open to any suggestions, and debate.

[Stephen Willard]

I contacted MSR, they don't carry extra tent bags, but are willing to make one extra for me for $30, not bad for a massive company.

I'm sure you do use one, do you ALSO use a ground cloth on top of that?

No, I do not use an additional ground cloth.

A few years back I was cleaning my MSR dragonfly stove at the end of the season, and I stripped the nozzle threads on it. They sent me a new stove for $25.00 including shipping. Considering the stove sells for around $150 now (I think) that speaks highly of them, and I am confident that if anything happens to my MSR tent they will stand by it and provide me with excellent service.

[Stephen Willard]

Just for the record, I sent my Nikon binoculars in to have the eye optics replaced about a month ago because they were badly scratched. The binoculars were over 20 years old, and they repaired them for free, and then retuned them without charging me for shipping. Nikon is another company I find to be very reputable.