Opinion needed concerning min. amount of dev. for 4 x 5 sheets

[Salem Salem]

If the container the sheet was housed were not much larger than the sheet of film, 5mm on all sides, that's about 51ml. Is this enough?

You're almost describing the Paterson orbital, which many people have reported using and many are happy with the results. (P.S. I have never used it myself because I've never had access to one).

[IanG]

You're almost describing the Paterson orbital, which many people have reported using and many are happy with the results. (P.S. I have never used it myself because I've never had access to one).

I used an Orbital in someone else's darkroom in the South West of Turkey (a member here), very easy and two of my favourite images. However I did ensure sufficient volume of developer.

Example. Using Taco method, 4 sheets in 800 ml of 1:100 Rodinal Stand = 2 ml Rodinal/ sheet.

That's what I was talking about earlier in the thread I think Agfa recommended 8-10ml of Rodinal concentrate per 35mm/120, 4x %"x4" or 10"x8". You can get away with 6ml if your using N (normal contrast) processing) with average subjects, 8-10ml gives a safety margin.

I use Pyrocat HD (Rodinal on Steroids) and when using my Jobo (inversion tanks) use 1+1 to 100 dilution but in a tray or Orbital use 2+2 to 100 which allows me to use less volume but still have sufficient developing agents.

Ian

[jcoldslabs]

I wonder what would be the difference, Jonathan, if you were to develop two identically exposed sheets, one at your normal time, and one at double? And if there's a difference between high key and low key negatives?

My normal development times for various films and the 1:39 dilution are figures that I have established over many years of shooting, testing and refining. I'm pretty sure developing twice as long would result in over-developed highlights, unless I was aiming for N+2 expansion.

I have often wondered if I would run into developer exhaustion issues with high key images (or really dense negatives), but I have not as yet. Below is an image I shot last month on 4x5 Acros 100. It is a fairly dense negative with lots of mid-tones and highlights but few shadow areas, yet it is very evenly developed and retains good highlight detail. This was developed in a 4x5 Cibachrome drum with 1ml HC-110 concentrate + 39ml water for 7 minutes. Alternatively, when I shoot T-Max film I prefer to use T-Max RS developer which I use 1:4 from concentrate (8ml dev. + 32ml water); this also gives me excellent results.

I would not necessarily recommend that anyone else use my method, however, at least not without testing it for themselves. It works for me and my way of shooting and processing, but others may find it problematic. My main reason for settling on 1:39 and not 1:31 (dil. B) is that the recommended development times for dil. B are often a bit short for my taste. And frankly, if the little drums held 80ml of chemistry I would gladly use 2ml concentrate + 78ml of water to be safe, but they don't.




Jonathan

[Leigh]

Example. Using Taco method, 4 sheets in 800 ml of 1:100 Rodinal Stand = 2 ml Rodinal/ sheet.

That's 8 ml/"sheet", since a sheet is defined as one 8x10 film or anything you can proof on one 8x10 paper.

- Leigh

[koh303]

This is yet one more of the "4X5 processing - how?" threads, so i will throw in my two cents:


When using rotatio -the Jobo 2520 (Multitank 2) only needs 270ml when loading 6 sheets. That means 65ml per sheet. Only slightly more then the OP's initial material question. The system is a tested and proven one with lots of resources and reference for support online and offline. This can be done on any flat surface, or a manual roller base, or a fancy processor.

If you only load 2 sheets, you only need 130ml in the tank (with the sheets loaded in the outer most slots.

[sepiareverb]

Developers have minimum volume specs, normally presented on the datasheet. For example, Rodinal requires 10ml per 8x10 film, regardless of whether the dilution is 1:25 or 1:100 or whatever.

- Leigh

When I first started with large format this was the second lesson I learned, after bellows extension. Then forgot it when I moved to 810. Second time was the charm for me, I have since always developed in trays with plenty of developer. No reason to start the darkroom process by skimping, it just makes every other step more difficult.

[Bill Burk]

a sheet is defined as one 8x10 film or anything you can proof on one 8x10 paper.

I like simple math like this.

[Dmorrison]

Well, thanks to everyone for the input--I appreciate it very much. I'm not trying to get away with murder here--I don't mind spending money on a good outcome. I merely wanted to learn
more about a process that I don't have much experience in. I'm going to make my own tanks, so I was looking for information regarding minimal fluid levels. I plan on automating the
process later, but the key here, I think, is the tank size/shape. All other variables will be taken care of with the automation; time, temp., agitation etc.

Thanks, Daniel

[JW Dewdney]

Daniel - I think that's a really smart way of doing things - so hat's off to you. I think it's admirable to go out and explore the frontier of what's possible first and then come back to a more conservative place - it will serve you incredibly well in the long run.

[Dmorrison]

Thanks JW.

I know that I will get this worked out. I've done things similar to this before, and through trial and error, find it wiser to start near the end result and start from
a path that will get me there. Having a clear idea of what needs to be accomplished will get me to where I want to be.

I figure that other than the developer used and it concentration, the only variables I have to contend with are the three mentioned above: time, temperature and agitation.
If there is something I haven't thought of, let me know. I'm speaking here of only the development stage, not everything leading up to it. Yes, exposure does affect
development time, but that would simply be a setting change in the automation device.

The goal here is to get very consistent results due to repeatability in the development stage. Just as one needs to measure out their developer/water mixture the
same way each time to get consistent results. The automator will basically allow me to repeat this part of the entire photo process consistently each time.

Thanks again, Daniel