Transitional Daguerreotype to Wetplate lens - J. H. Walzl

[goamules]

I just realized this is another "Great" American lens that starts with a "W", Walzl, Willard, Wollensak!

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...ead.php?112481

[Steven Tribe]

What have I missed? "American" lens?

I have read all the"extra material" and can find no suggestion other than Walzl was always a photographic trading house and not a lens maker. His own background gives no suggestion of optical insight other than that of a businessman/entrepreneur before he set up shop by himself. Due to his Austrian background, I would suggest the maker of the earlier lenses is to be found either there or in Germany. Due to the collapse all the smaller Viennese makers due to Voigtländer, he would have to have looked to Paris for suppliers in later years.

[CCHarrison]

Agreed Steven. To my knowledge, Walzl didn't make lenses nor cameras, strictly sold other makers products.

Dan

[goamules]

His great great granddaughter's grandmother's aunt's uncle's pregnant neighbor told me he made the lenses with a team of German immigrants. So while they were made by Germans, they made them in America.

"Mr. Walzl's aim was to colonize the above section of Virginia with industrious Germans, who would develop its resources and thus add largely to the substantial wealth and prosperity of the State. Through his instrumentality three hundred Germans were brought from their native country and located at Chancellorsville. "
From above reference.

But with all seriousness aside, the lens doesn't look like any French or British brasswork, and I haven't seen enough German lenses to say it doesn't look like them. I sure doesn't look like Voigtlanders products. I ask you this; what German company exported lenses in 1859 with no engraving, to be engraved by the American reseller? I've only seen French companies doing that.

[Steven Tribe]

Agreed about the domination of the French "no-name" exports - but we are lucky in that they had the habit of grafiti on their glass and the stamped AD on some brass parts.

There were plenty of small makers in Vienna at this time (late 1850's) selling under their own brands. Walzl, as a fellow Austrian, would have been able to source either these "names" OR the small unnamed/unknown brass and optics workshops who were sub-contracted in production.

Photohistory.at shows a lot of typical lenses from the 1850's and 1860's for comparison with those who have a Walzl in front of them by the keyboard!

I can only add my own F2.3 Waibl as an illustration.

[CCHarrison]

What drives me crazy on these boards is the lack of evidence & supporting research when claims are made... and while GA doesnt prove anything related to Walzl and is purely speculating, he may be right... While my previous research showed no positive evidence that JH Walzl manufactured, there is an entry in Humphrey's Journal stating he DID manufacturer his "Central Stop Cameras (lenses)". I do apply caution to this however given this is the only reference I have ever seen mentioning this. Second, magazines like Humphrey's werent always accurate (and were motivated by business relationships*) and lastly, I dont know what they mean by manufacture... did he make the glass ? did he make the barrel ? Did he employ other US makers to assemble the lens under their watchful eye ? Is the glass and barrel of european make and they were assembled by Walzl in the US ? The lenses do look more European than American and al feature a tangential drive (the ones I have seen). Not sure we will ever know - but the plot thickens...

From Humphrey's Journal Vol 17, Issue 17 page 272 1866.

Dan


* In this issue of HJ, Walzl also placed an advertisement for his stock depot.

[goamules]

I was making an assumption John Walzl made his lenses based on several things. One, time frame. In the pre Civil War days, lenses were commonly made in the US, and less commonly imported. I also an assumption it was made about 1860, (short, squat lens with long, deep hood) but could have been 1866 or so. If later, it could have been an import, but again, my assumption was based on the fact it doesn't look like a French lens, the only "blank marking" imports I've seen. All of those are Jamin Darlots, or Gasc Charconnet. Those two are very easy for me to recognize, I've had dozens go through my hands, and still have several US marked imports. I also based the assumption on the fact John was a daguerreotypist and many of them eventually made their own lenses. (CC Harrison being one). I also base it on the lack of any information in the records that his lenses were imported. Anthony, Scovill, Byrant, Ben French, and all the other import houses would often make a big point of advertising when they were importing lenses from Darlot or Dallmeyer. Sometimes they only said "we're getting these from the best European manufacturer..." But the early John Walzl ads don't say that. So, lots of circumstantial evidence. But no "facts."

Then we come to the Humphrey's Journal reference that he did manufacture in the US. Thanks Dan! We could discredit this reference, but then we'd have to discredit all the things in Humphry's that we've come to believe about Morrison, Harrison, Palmer and Longking, and the rest of the great American lens manufacturers. Because there just aren't many 1850s - 1870s references regarding any manufacturing in the optical industry. Often, they were documented years later, as the founders were interviewed or spoke at photography events in the elder years.

So, I can back down from saying for sure it's US made. But we have even less evidence it's NOT made here.

[CCHarrison]

We do have to take into serious consideration that both Snelling and Humphrey's Journals and writings were motivated by money and their business. Their work wasnt always factual or "news." There are many advertorials and countless puff pieces that were written to flatter the firms that advertised with them. With Snelling being the main Agent for Anthony - clearly he was even more motivated to pump up Anthony and put down Scovill (when they were rivals).

Unlike Walzl, the other firms mentioned are corroborated by multiple sources including more "factual" and (more) independent sources like patents, business and court records. This is whats tricky when putting together the history....separating fact from fiction. If I saw more evidence from multiple sources that Walzl made lenses, I'd become a believer...

Dan

[goamules]

OK, I agree. Let's say "we don't know where they were made" until further evidence.

[Brassai]

OK, I agree. Let's say "we don't know where they were made" until further evidence.

Would it be possible to do a spectograph of some sort to determine exactly where the glass came from? Glass is not pure--it has minute contaminants in it. If you could get a collection of lenses from that period together and check their molecular signatures, maybe you could find a match?