I've been mired in this issue for 50 years and know that the act of selling has no bearing on my value as a person. The thread is titled "On craft and life". I have serious input. Kirk, if you get up in the morning and need to sell something to get by, does that fulfill you?
Then, you agree with me.Originally Posted by Jim collum
as said before.. i don't photograph for anyone but myself.. however.. if someone values it enough to trade with me their effort in life.. whether it be something I hold of equal value (possibly a piece of their art? maybe a lens?) or of some abstract we have all decided on using to represent our effort in (money).. then i make the trade. And in doing so, it pleases me greatly that I can see something, and I can share that vision with someone who cherishes it as much as i do. As I've said.. I view art as a conversation between my self and someone.. anyone.. It's not a solitary endeavor. It requires someone to converse with. That person my be a plumber, or a maker of pool cues. Since I need neither, we have decided upon an abstract called money to represent that what we do.. and they are willing to trade their effort for my 'words' We both win
I also 'listen' to other photographers.. those who's words move me.. I will trade my effort to have those words available to me when i might need them. You're the only one in this thread who equates art with Walmart. The art found there says nothing to me..
So I spend my days working as a software engineer. My true passion is my photography. And you're telling me it's a bad thing (a very bad thing) for me to be able to spend those hours during the days working at my art. It's a good thing for me to spend hours away from that doing something that doesn't bring me as much pleasure and parcel out minutes here and there to create my art?
you live in a very dark, miserable and depressing world
I don't.
Do any of you guys know what it means to be stuck with a skill and tortured and imprisoned by it? Do you like to do THINGS because you HAVE TO? Do you like to rationalize your opinion of yourself by the yardstick of sales. Do you like your job because you like it? What would you do with no restrictions from life or opinions? I would make photographs for me.
No, I'm saying that if you measure your your photography by selling, that's a bad thing. I am in a dark place, approaching the end of my life, in pain and realizing that pleasing others has been fruitless, a sellout. How does software make you feel?
it makes me feel good.. over the years I have created things that others enjoy, have found useful. Currently, what I do affects billions of people in one way or another. That hasn't always been the case.. often it's only useful to hundreds or thousands... But I have enjoyed the effort. I like the interaction between the machine and my mind. It's the 2nd most favorite thing I could be doing.
the first being photography.
I'm sorry your life has felt fruitless. I love my life.. what I have produced. I love my photography. I love that others (not a lot.. but many) love what I can see with a camera. I'd still do it if no one liked it. But I won't apologize, nor feel bad, nor consider myself less than a positive spiritual being. Your views are so far from my, and all who i know's, reality.. That's one of the reasons i've pursued this conversation.
Okay, you're too "deep" for me. But why belittle others while expressing your views?
One of my friends who makes a living with his photography does the following: from January to March he travels to a different part of the world. He goes to places that cost him in a month what he would spend for a one week stay in London or Paris. He stays with people he meets and befriends along the way or at hostels and the like. Name the ass end of the world and Avner has been there. Last year he started at the bottom of Argentina and hitchhiked his way up to Columbia where he caught a flight home.
Along the way he stayed in villages, towns and cities and visited all parts of them from the slums to the nice places. He photographs the heart and soul of the people and places he visits. In Columbia he met someone who snuck him in to one of the silver mines where he documented the horrifiying conditions there.
And then he comes home and sells the rest of the year at mostly art fairs, markets etc. and to NGO's, corporate offices etc. from time to time. Avner loves photography, loves people and loves it that his photography is appreciated by enough people that he makes a living from it that satisfies him.
Paraphrasing Its A Wonderful Life now..."But to you a warped, frustrated old man, he's just a whore..."
I don't know, I've seen lots of arguments, trolls, crazy things on many forums but I've never gotten involved in one of them like this. But when I thinks of my friends who sell photos and read your statements you just offend me. I've said my piece, I'm out.
To the Forum, a Happy and safe New Year to you all. This is my favorite place on the web to visit. Thanks.
Bob
Bob
There's mosquitoes on the river, fish are rising up like birds. It's been hot for seven weeks now, too hot to even speak now, did you hear what I just heard?
Not to change the topic from piling Evan, but I have to ask:
Evan, is there any connection between you/your company and the online photographer Mike Johnston? I'm reading pool posts over there and suddenly I'm seeing pool cues over here. It's unusual, I'm curious.
Shifting gears a bit, when I was young it became clear to me that as a photographer I'd have to start doing work with an eye to selling it if I wanted to be a real photographer (i.e. be able to afford to do it in the first place). It was also clear that I would never win any NFA grants since I wasn't "plugged in." So I came up with a saying, "Build your own NFA," meaning find some way of funding your own work to keep it going while at the same time insulating it from the pressure to make art that was more appealing to average people.
There a lot of different ways to measure the success of whatever strategy you choose as an artist but the metric for the minimum level of success is surely the question "Were you able to keep producing good work?"
--Darin
Thanks, Jim. It's a real trial for me, the question of why to get up and do what I do. I am in a bad place, have spent decades trying to please others and now realize it could have been a silly endeavor. I'm not trying to be mean, rather trying to dissuade people from hoping to be the next rock and roll star. We must do what we do for pure reasons, if people wish to buy it, that's a real compliment. If you have to SELL it, maybe not
The thread is "On craft and life ". I do both and am trying to be honest about my feelings..persecute me for honesty..
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