Dallmeyer "D" f/6 Patent Portrait Lens - Petzval or not ?

[davehyams]

I will gladly take any pesky dallmeyer 6Ds off of anyones hands if they believe that they were misled while being told they were purchasing the finest british petzval lens available. Just shoot me a pm, and I will also take all those worthless b, c and a series lenses as well. I do this only for the good of the photographic community as a whole, a significant sacrifice that I will burden for the good of the group.

[tuant]

Thank you for your generosity! No! No one was misled here. Like many others here, to use the saying of another LF goer here: Most here can spot a true Petzval from a mile away, in rain or at night A perfect Dallmeyer 6D which covers 1620 costs around $4000. A flat-flinted true Dallmeyer Petzval which covers 1620 could cost up to $12000! The question is should we draw a line somewhere? True, to a broad sense, all front cemented and rear 1+1 spaced may all fall into the so-called Petzval category. But then, more than half of the lenses made before 1900 can now be called Petzvals!
Call me a Petzval Fundamentalist! To me, the word Petzval should only belong to the flat-flinted traditional Petzvals so we don't confuse that with lens such as Dallmeyer 1A, 2B, 3C and 4D or Hermagis Ediscops and so on. Science teaches us to be more precise. Lens makers such as Dallmeyers themselves have tried hard in the past to apply separate patents for their As, Bs, Cs, and Ds so as to distance themselves from the more or less patented Petzval, why should we nowadays rebrand them again all together?
Last night, one of my best friends called me stubborn. Well, before I say skip it, I know I am not trying to pursued anyone here. I would never tell people that my 6D or 8D are Petzvals or even Petzval types if I were to sell them! At the end of the day, there are always a few sellers here I can count on. I know among us, a Petzval is a Petzval like a Petzval! I don't need to double check with them.
Sorry, I had an extra cup of wine tonight with a piece of good deep sea fish-fillet We are still good friends just with different opinions about the darn word Petzval

Tuant

I will gladly take any pesky dallmeyer 6Ds off of anyones hands if they believe that they were misled while being told they were purchasing the finest british petzval lens available. Just shoot me a pm, and I will also take all those worthless b, c and a series lenses as well. I do this only for the good of the photographic community as a whole, a significant sacrifice that I will burden for the good of the group.

[goamules]

...A perfect Dallmeyer 6D which covers 1620 costs around $4000. A flat-flinted true Dallmeyer Petzval which covers 1620 could cost up to $12000!

And you're pulling these prices out of where? So what? We already said the slower D petzval is not a cult lens so is cheaper.

True, to a broad sense, all front cemented and rear 1+1 spaced may all fall into the so-called Petzval category. But then, more than half of the lenses made before 1900 can now be called Petzvals!

You're absolutely right, they are. There were very few fast designs until the Anastigmats came out.

Call me a Petzval Fundamentalist! To me, the word Petzval should only belong to the flat-flinted traditional Petzvals so we don't confuse that with lens such as Dallmeyer 1A, 2B, 3C and 4D or Hermagis Ediscops and so on. Science teaches us to be more precise.

There's only one confused person here. By the way, if you research the curves of Petzval's design, there is no "flat" surface on either rear glass, the surfaces all have some level of curve. And none of the hundreds I have handled were flat either. None of us has any clue what you're talking about. So you can go on thinking the world is flat if you want to. No one else does.

Lens makers such as Dallmeyers themselves have tried hard in the past to apply separate patents for their As, Bs, Cs, and Ds so as to distance themselves from the more or less patented Petzval, why should we nowadays rebrand them again all together?

Wrong. They altered it to sell lenses. Petzval failed to patent his lens anywhere but his home country. That's why every country started replicating them right away, including Voigtlander.

Last night, one of my best friends called me stubborn. ... I would never tell people that my 6D or 8D are Petzvals or even Petzval types if I were to sell them!

That's too bad you would mislead them. I'm sure they'd wonder what you thought the lens was. You going to invent a name for the design?... So, what design is a Dallmeyer D lens? A triplet? A Tessar? A "Doohickymofo?" What do you think it is?




You've been given the history of the manufacturer, the scientific background information from respected opticians like Kingslake, and the hands on examination of current lens experts that all the Dallmeyer portrait lens series were Petzvals. All you have done is invent an inane idea about "flat surfaces" that no one has ever heard of.

[tuant]

Garrett, we all know the word Petzval does magic on Ebay. Many a times I had to ask the sellers to "feel" the bottom if they were flat. When speed really matters (for doing collodion), this has become very important to me and to many fellow shooter and that's why the prices on those flat bottomed ones have gone through the roof as you know it! It is a supply and demand issue, whether we liked it or not and it will continue. With such a huge disparity in price and with possibly more than half of the lenses made before 1900 can be legally called Petzvals, is that a problem? It will not be a problem for me as I know what I am buying. I just thought I should give this guy some credit for coming up with that iconic signature design which is unmistakably his, even though he himself tried several modifications later. I am not sure if Petzval were alive today, would he be happy to see so many can now be called Petzvals?

I have to agree here that on technical grounds, most of the lenses we talked about do belong to the extended Petzval family, just as those mini electric coopers are still in the car family, but some may argue that they are totally different from a Mustang!

Tuant

[dap]

I am not sure if Petzval were alive today, would he be happy to see so many can now be called Petzvals?

The human ego being what it is, I'd guess he'd be pretty pumped. The wide reverence of his name would allow him to slap it on all kinds of tweaked lens designs in an effort to cash in before the petzval lens bubble bursts (of course that is assuming he wouldn't sign a big buck exclusivity contract with lomography).