Dry Plates (handmade) - Tips & Tricks, Experiences & Examples . . .

[DannL]

I make my own silver gelatin dry plates 8 x 10, never had probs with the emulsion lifting, I use rottenstone and a little window cleaner, but still grind down the edges of the glass. Did have a bit of trouble getting the speed right but have it figured at about iso 10.

ISO 10 is good. Which emulsion is that?

Besides emulsion lifting as it enters the stop bath, I've also had it curl up, and separate from the glass months after being processed. I think this occurs, as others have mentioned, because the glass is not chemically clean when the emulsion is applied. It's also possible that I've introduced contaminants between drying the plates, and coating the plates. I just picked up some knox gelatin, which may help. I would like to get away from the polyurethane step if possible. The drying time there is a pita.

[jnantz]

hi dan !

i never ever have trouble with emulsion lift in the stop bath ( i dont' use stop but water instead )
usually when i had emulsion lift problems, it was as soon as the plate went into the fixer. ...

i had a beautiful full scale plate and i was stoked ... then the whole image lifted and floated off the plate ...
i would do anything to save the image .. hands in the fix with a sheet of glass or paper but it just shredded ..
i felt like joe pesci trying to puzzle together the ripped portrait of the pope on SNL ( after sinead o'connor ripped it up ... )

since i started putting the glass, or metal on a very cold stone just-post coating,
i stopped having problems like that, no gelatin needed, no urethane either ...
i DO put hardener in my fixer now .. it makes me cringe just saying that, but that has helped too.



YNNV

[andrewch59]

ISO 10 is good. Which emulsion is that?

Besides emulsion lifting as it enters the stop bath, I've also had it curl up, and separate from the glass months after being processed. I think this occurs, as others have mentioned, because the glass is not chemically clean when the emulsion is applied. It's also possible that I've introduced contaminants between drying the plates, and coating the plates. I just picked up some knox gelatin, which may help. I would like to get away from the polyurethane step if possible. The drying time there is a pita.

Hi Dan, I make it from scratch, silver nitrate, gelatin.......I also just use water as a stop bath, the only prob I sometimes have is if the water is a little too warm it frills. I made a dozen or so 8 x 10 and took another last night iso 10 was a couple of stops out, so will try at iso 8 tonight.
If any are worthy I will put them up here.
I made the mistake of trying to make some heart shaped bokeh in the background at the same time, unfortunately it throws the exposure out. Just another trial and error project.
I use rotten stone and spray glass cleaner as I said, then I get silicone cooking liner paper and store them in that until use. Then I re-store them in it after I have coated and the gelatin has set. No probs so far. Just make sure the gelatin has dried thoroughly or its sticky mess

[DannL]

I've never had the time to make emulsion from scratch. Not enough hours in the year. ;-)

[andrewch59]

I've never had the time to make emulsion from scratch. Not enough hours in the year. ;-)

Yes, understood, only takes a couple of hours over two nights though. Anyway I found this book to be interesting.
SILVER GELATIN A User's Guide to Liquid Photographic Emulsions PHOTOGRAPHY book

[jnantz]

Hi Dan, I make it from scratch, silver nitrate, gelatin.......I also just use water as a stop bath, the only prob I sometimes have is if the water is a little too warm it frills. I made a dozen or so 8 x 10 and took another last night iso 10 was a couple of stops out, so will try at iso 8 tonight.
If any are worthy I will put them up here.
I made the mistake of trying to make some heart shaped bokeh in the background at the same time, unfortunately it throws the exposure out. Just another trial and error project.
I use rotten stone and spray glass cleaner as I said, then I get silicone cooking liner paper and store them in that until use. Then I re-store them in it after I have coated and the gelatin has set. No probs so far. Just make sure the gelatin has dried thoroughly or its sticky mess

what recipe do you use ? one of the ones in the silver gelatin book ?

Yes, understood, only takes a couple of hours over two nights though. Anyway I found this book to be interesting.
SILVER GELATIN A User's Guide to Liquid Photographic Emulsions PHOTOGRAPHY book

i have this book as well !
it is great resource for info on coating, processing &c but from
all reports the emulsion recipes are iffy ...
the best place to learn about making emulsions from scratch is the light farm ( http://www.thelightfarm.com )
proven recipes and information from people who use them. ( including mark ostermann at the george eastman house )

years ago i made an emulsion in a house i lived in when i was in college ( the 1980s ) using a recipe from an ancient photographic annual from 1904 ...
it wasn't hard, but didn't come out very good .. so i gravitated to liquid light which i have used on and off for 30 years ...
when i run out of film ( and i am just about there ! ) i will be making chris pattons sea water emulsion, it is simple; and i can't wait !
it is: gelatin, silver nitrate and sea water ( or salt added to water if you have no sea near you ) ... nothing else !
my problem is that i have film that i need to use up, because once i start to make my own emulsion, i don't plan on buying commercial film, paper &c anymore ...

john

[andrewch59]

what recipe do you use ? one of the ones in the silver gelatin book ?




i have this book as well !
it is great resource for info on coating, processing &c but from
all reports the emulsion recipes are iffy ...
the best place to learn about making emulsions from scratch is the light farm ( http://www.thelightfarm.com )
proven recipes and information from people who use them. ( including mark ostermann at the george eastman house )

years ago i made an emulsion in a house i lived in when i was in college ( the 1980s ) using a recipe from an ancient photographic annual from 1904 ...
it wasn't hard, but didn't come out very good .. so i gravitated to liquid light which i have used on and off for 30 years ...
when i run out of film ( and i am just about there ! ) i will be making chris pattons sea water emulsion, it is simple; and i can't wait !
it is: gelatin, silver nitrate and sea water ( or salt added to water if you have no sea near you ) ... nothing else !
my problem is that i have film that i need to use up, because once i start to make my own emulsion, i don't plan on buying commercial film, paper &c anymore ...

john

Hi John, yes it is Mark Ostermans recipe. The book supplies lots of variations and additives you can use to fine tune, and shows great ways to print using gelatin. Marks recipe also explains how to speed up your emulsions by heating and the speed at which you add the silver.
Andrew

[DannL]

hi dan !

i never ever have trouble with emulsion lift in the stop bath ( i dont' use stop but water instead )
usually when i had emulsion lift problems, it was as soon as the plate went into the fixer. ...

i had a beautiful full scale plate and i was stoked ... then the whole image lifted and floated off the plate ...
i would do anything to save the image .. hands in the fix with a sheet of glass or paper but it just shredded ..
i felt like joe pesci trying to puzzle together the ripped portrait of the pope on SNL ( after sinead o'connor ripped it up ... )

since i started putting the glass, or metal on a very cold stone just-post coating,
i stopped having problems like that, no gelatin needed, no urethane either ...
i DO put hardener in my fixer now .. it makes me cringe just saying that, but that has helped too.



YNNV

Hey John, maybe you can explain something for me. I was coating 6 half-plates this evening, thinking about the cold stone method that you had described. How do you think that works, or why does that work for you? Since liquid light, that which I use is 80% water, at some point the plates need to dry. I can see the stone causing the gelatin to initially gel, but without drying the plates, I envision them sticking to the plate holder. Or is that not the case? Anyhoo, I pre-coated the plates with Knox gelatin and that step went very well. Extracting the water with a blow-dryer really sped up the process. Coating on top of the knox went very smooth. I think this entire batch is for the most part defect free.

That Knox smells awful. Reminds me of when the horseshoer came out to the stables to do the horses. A lovely smell.

[jnantz]

hi dannL

that's a good question, and to be honest
i have no idea how or why it does what it does ..
i used to precoat all my plates with knox gelatin but
since i learned about the cold-method, i stopped using gelatin altogether as a sub layer
my poor guess is that the cold solidifies the gelatin fast and does something like "cold cures" it
the only time i used gelatin lately was with 20+ year old liquid light i used, the gelatin was bad
so i pre-coated everything ( paper mostly ) with a sub layer of knox ... and it worked OK
i used them as retina prints and they seemed to have stood up very well ( unfixed in room light didnt' change )
and have beautiful colors ...

[andrewch59]

You use this? http://www.amazon.com/Behlen-T23433-.../dp/B003AYPRLA

Hi Randy, apologies for the late reply, I just went on feebay and someone un the UK sold me a decent size bag of the stuff. Its also good with a bit of linseed oil for polishing wooden cameras. French polishers would use it as a final finish.