I tried many view cameras before purchasing a Arca Swiss F line field monorail . I just could not seem to get sharp focus with any camera other than the Arca . Focusing a Arca is very fast and easy . Shooting with a Arca is so easy and I am a Arca man for life . As for lenses I shoot Rodenstock .
Not to argue with you Kerry (I have the greatest respect for your knowledge and experience), but let me explain my views which you quoted above.
I said that a monorail is a pain because for me, it is, literally. My Sinar F2 is pain to carry, not just because of the weight, but it's bulk. To carry it around I used the hardcase I bought with it. Carrying it was a serious pain in my shoulder. Buying a field camera allowed me to use a backpack and not a Sinar hardcase, this made transportation much less painful. Of course, you can breakdown a monorail so it does fold flat, but that's too much hassle for me, for others who don't mind ... knock yourselves out.
The TK45S, in my opinion is the best 'fold flat' monorail for me. I bought it used for less than $2,000.
Regarding a dusty, desert environment, I wouldn't use my TK45, my Sinar or, if I still had it, my Wisner. The only camera that is good for an environment like that is one which YOU are prepared to clean afterwards. For me that's my Nikon F100, not my Leica, not my MF gear or my LF gear.
Darren: I firmly believe that it's a matter of personal choice. If you can, go to somewhere like Mid-West Photo and try them out. In Canada, the Arca-Swiss cameras are tough to find used and new they're still very expensive. Used Sinars and Cambo mono-rails are plentiful. After shooting with the Sinar and then the Wisner, the field camera suited 'my' needs down to the ground, I've not used the Sinar since. When I found the TK45 it was perfect for 'me'. A monorail which will fold up into a compact form is very important to me.
LF cameras tend to be comprimises IMO, let me give an example. The Wisner Technical field is a wondeful camera. The geared movements are great, precise when you need to get it 'just right'. But, try breaking it down and folding it up when you're in a hurry. Zeroing the movements so that you can fold it up takes longer than if you had simple friction movements. You pays your money and you makes your choice.
As Kerry suggested, take a look at some Arca F-Line cameras, again, I suggest buying used. There are some fabulous used cameras out there, you can buy a great 'used' camera for the price of an 'new' entry level one.
Caveat Emptor: The above is the sole opinion of the author, if you disagree ... whatever .... I'm off to expose some sheet film ...
Not to argue with you Kerry
Ron,
Sorry if my comments seemed argumentative. That was not my intent. I probably could have worded my response better. While I enjoy a good debate, this is really more a difference of opinion than an argument. There is no right or wrong when it comes to camera selection. We all have our own individual needs and personal preferences. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and each opinion counts.
Buying a field camera allowed me to use a backpack and not a Sinar hardcase, this made transportation much less painful. Of course, you can breakdown a monorail so it does fold flat, but that's too much hassle for me
With either the telescoping optical bench (which I have), or the collapsible rail, the ARCA folds down just as small as the TK45S - and does so faster (in my experience, but not by a lot). I carry my F-Line in a backpack, no problem. This is one reason, I suggested Darren might want to upgrade the Discovery to a different rail. To "fold up" (collaspe is a more accurate term) my F-Line, all I do is run the rear standard onto the front rail section and then flip a single lever to remove that rail section as a unit with both standards. I do end up with a separate extension bracket with the second rail section - which can either be left on the tripod or stowed in my pack. With the collapsible rail, you don't even have this (but you have shorter maximum extension - not a problem if your longest lens is a 240).
Regarding a dusty, desert environment, I wouldn't use my TK45, my Sinar or, if I still had it, my Wisner.
My TK45S saw a lot of action in the desert (as did my Wisner and my Canham DLC). Those cameras also saw a lot of action at Oregon Coast (sand, wind a salt spray) and the rain forests of the NW. Never had any problems. Of course, I would perform simple maintenance between trips (mostly just wiping them down with a damp cloth to remove grit and salt residue).
The TK45S, in my opinion is the best 'fold flat' monorail for me. I bought it used for less than $2,000.
With the weak dollar, new prices have crept back up to $3300 - $3500, but bargains can still be found on the used market. I recently sold my TK45S for a little over $2000, but it was decked out with a BosScreen, bag bellows, RRS mounting plate. etc. A beautiful ARCA-SWISS F-Line Field recently sold on eBay for $1895 (I almost bought it myself). Used ARCAs are not common, but they do show up occasionally on eBay of at Midwest or Badger.
I agree with Ron whole heartedly that this is all a matter of personal preference. There are a lot of great cameras out there. The last four I've used as my primary cameras (in reverse order) are the ARCA-SWISS F-Line Field, Linhof Technikardan TK45S, Canham DLC and Wisner Technical Field. All were wonderful cameras that had their own specific strengths and weaknesses. Quite frankly, I'm sure I could coexist happily with any other them. Like Ron, I have gravitated towards prefering the smoothness, rigidity, and ease of use of a monorail in the field. The compromise is a camera that can be a bit heavier and bulkier than a folding field camera. Cameras like the ARCA-SWISS F-Line and TK45S only weigh a bit more than a wooden camera with similar features. They are also designed to fold down small enough to carry in a pack. Does that mean they are ideal for everyone? Certainly not. Some people simply prefer the look and feel of a wooden camera. And in the wooden cameras, there is even more variety - everything from the budget priced Shen-Hao up to the beautiful and expensive Ebonys. There are photographers out there who love each and every one and use them to create wonderful images. The important thing is to get something you feel comfortable with and get out and shoot some film.
As Ron suggests, it would to to your advantage to actually get your hands on the cameras you are considering. Darren, where are you located? If you're anywhere near Portland, OR I'd be happy to let you give my ARCA a try. If you're in Ohio, Midwest Photo Exchange would be a great place to see both cameras, or Badger in Wisconsin (call ahead, as they aren't really set-up as a showroom). Once we know where you're located, we can suggest other dealers and maybe other users can step forward to show you their cameras. Until you get your hands on a camera, there is really no way of knowing how well you'll like it. The location and feel of control knobs may seem perfectly logical to one user, yet may drive another user nuts. While reviews and recommendations are useful, they are all written from the perspective of other users. Your individual perspective may or may not agree. Only you can determine that - and that's best done hands-on.
Kerry
Thank you for all the replies. I have always been amazed at the knowledge of the posts here and this is no exception.
I have had a chance to look at several types of cameras but not eith a Discovery or Shen-Hao. They just do not turn up much locally. Those who live close to Badger or B+H do not know how lucky they have it. The best I see if if I meet a fellow photographer with equipment or the odd used piece that makes it to a local store.
Kerry you really go above and beyond with your comments here on this forum. I for one really appreciate them (+ your website and your articles in View Camera too).
I do not mind paying the higher price of the Discovery. I want value for the dollar (ain't made of money) but know this is a hobby that does cost money. I do want to make sure I am getting the right camera.
Someone mentioned the expandability and accessories it is possible to use with the Arca-Swiss and that is a big draw for me. I see my short to mid term goals of being landscapes with 75-210mm lenses, but long term? Maybe 8x10 or longer lenses, I do like the fact the Arca can meet those needs.
BTW- I like the design of the F-Field camera. I saw the pictures of it in Jack Dykinga's book and it was a reason I investigated the Arca. Here is an example of how I think the Discovery gives practically as much bang for the half the bucks. Even adding the Leather WA bellows and a lensboard adapter it still comes in $800 less.
Thanks again for all the help and I will post back down the road when I get something.
Just a correction:
"The Shen-Hao bag bellows are made from a thick, stiff upholstery-like vinyl (think Naugahyde), are a bit difficult to install and must be removed to fold the camera"
I've owned a Shen-Hao and I found no problems at all with the bag bellows (it was rather with the normal bellows i had issue with). Although made of vinyl I found it more than adequate, installing it was less than a minute and no, you don't have to remove it to fold the camera.
I have a Discovery but exchanged the stock rail for a rail "system" built from several eBay purchases costing less than $200 total. I now have a short 6-inch rail for packing, plus extras to build it almost a meter long (not that I need it.) If you can't wait for a good F-Line to show up on eBay, consider the Discovery as the controls and other parts as the same as the F-line.
I hated the stock Discovery rail!
I've owned a Shen-Hao and I found no problems at all with the bag bellows (it was rather with the normal bellows i had issue with). Although made of vinyl I found it more than adequate, installing it was less than a minute and no, you don't have to remove it to fold the camera.
Walter,
Thanks for posting the correction. It has been a while since I had the Shen-Hao. I got one for review purposes back when it first came out. I didn't think the camera would fold up with the bag bellows installed, but your experience shows otherwise. Being a more "open" monorail design, it is easier to install the wide angle bellows on the ARCA (especially if you have large hands). Installing the bag bellows on the Shen-Hao is comparable to most other wooden flat beds (like the Wisner). Certainly not overly difficult, and at $99 the Shen-Hao bag bellows (like the camera and other accessories) is a great bargain.
The ARCA wide angle bellows is made from better materials, is more flexible, easier to install and can accomodate a wider range of lenses. But then at nearly 4x the cost, it should be better. Again, we are comparing applesranges. Not only are these two very different cameras, they are also in very different price ranges (especially the accessories). That they are both good values for the money shows that both manufacturers have done their job of identifying a particular market niche and offering products that fills that niche with an appropriate level of features, quality and price.
Kerry
My experience agrees with Kerry's and Frank's.
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