How much better are quadtone inks than regular Epson U/chrome?

[Bruce Watson]

Tim,

My understanding is that the Septone inks (old Piezography inks) are quite different than the Piezotones, which is a new generation of inks. The Old Piezography inks faded and warm shifted quite noticably, while the current generation inks (Piezotones) do not.

As far a fading and tonal shifting goes, it seems that the current generation of MIS (using the Eboni black) and Piezotones are about equal. Either can outlast the paper they are printed on.

[Brian Ellis]

Black only printing with the 2200 has worked pretty well for me in the limited number of times I've used it. The biggest problem I've had is finding a paper with which it will produce a neutral tone. I've been using Epson Enhanced Matte since that's what I use in my other printer with MIS inks but black only on the 2200 produces a warm tone with that paper. I've read about other papers that produce a more neutral tone but haven't yet tried them.

I agree with Carl, if you want to try black only replace the Epson matte or photo black cartridge with MIS Eboni (costs about $9 a cartidge in the U.S., not sure about Israel). Also go to Clayton Jones' web site (www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn3.htm) where you'll find detailed instructions on how to set up the 2200 for black only printing. Finally, do some reading in the Yahoo "digital black and white: the print" group that Johnny mentioned. It's a great resource for digital black and white printing information.

My suggestion for you with your 2200 would be to first try your normal Ultrachrome inks with Roy Harrington's RIP if you use a Mac or wait until the Windows version arrives this summer if you don't. I use Windows so I have no personal experience with it but from what I've read it does an excellent job. I certainly wouldn't pay for Imageprint without first trying Roy's RIP for a lot less money.

I use MIS quadtone inks in an Epson 1280 with curves downloaded for free from the MIS website and have been very pleased with them. Not all MIS inks are variable tone (unless they've dropped some of the lines they used to sell), some are and some aren't, you can take your pick. But as I'm sure you know using a quadtone ink requires a second printer if you wish to continue doing any color work so Roy's RIP would be very nice to have in the 2200. In the U.S. there are quite a few places that sell third party replacement inks for the Epson Ultrachromes for less than the Epson brand costs. MIS is one such place, you might check something like that out if Epson inks cost $500 in Israel (ouch!).

[Donal Taylor]

"My understanding is that the Septone inks (old Piezography inks) are quite different than the Piezotones, which is a new generation of inks. The Old Piezography inks faded and warm shifted quite noticably, while the current generation inks (Piezotones) do not."

Hogarth, it sounds like you have been well and truly taken in by John Cones lets charitably call it "propaganda".

His inks have always never done better than anyone else's in widely accepted independent testing. They have sometimes done worse. So he developed his own in house testing (which he justifies an various ways), which also happens to be biased towards the properties of his inks, then makes the claim as to how much better than everyone else's inks his are.

There are new neutral tone Septones as well as the "original" warm septones (which are similar to the old Piezography inks). These inks will, according to all other independent testing, do as well as the Cone inks - in in some cases better than them. All in all though, there is very little between them - the bigger differences are in the software - and in the Spetone inks, in the use of other coloured pigments to let you vary the tone more widely.

No one, apart from die-hard piezography fans (who are usually tied into his expensive system) actually really believes the exaggerated claims for his inks. They are good - but they are only as good as the other, similar inks (from pixelguys and MIS) - the differences in longevity are negligible. (in fact, based on objective independent testing, the MIS inks are probably longer lasting than the Cone inks)

[Bruce Watson]

Thank you mark. Always a pleasure to be called a dupe.

I said "As far a fading and tonal shifting goes, it seems that the current generation of MIS (using the Eboni black) and Piezotones are about equal."

You said "the differences in longevity are negligible."

It looks to me as if you are violently agreeing with me.

[sanking]

Hi folks,

Thanks to everyone for all the information. As a new owner of a 2200 I find it very useful.

But here is my question. I am using the 2200 primarily to make digital negatives on Pictorico OHP for making prints with alternative processes (carbon and Pt./Pd.) and AZO. Unfortunatley there is a just a tad more grain (some call it a gritty look) than one would want when the final surface is a smooth silver paper, as with regular silver gelatin or AZO. With alternative processses like carbon and Pt/Pd no problem since the texture of the paper gobbles up the grainy look.

I have been told that the use of dye based inks, instead of the pigment based inks of the Ultrachorme ink system, will give a smoother, less grainy look on Pictorico. But I am reluctant to actually try this from fear of damaging the printer. So, can anyone recommend from positive personal experience a dye-based ink that will work well in the 2200 without risk of clogging up the nozzles?

[Lars Åke Vinberg]

I know that it is difficult for you Americans to always remember, but this is a forum that is used globally, so what is true in the U.S. marketplace might not be valid in other parts of the world. Consumer laws and distributors' policies vary, as does pricing.

Thus, while Epson in the U.S. might have to honor warranty if third-party inks have been used, this might not necessarily be true in other countries.

Just a friendly reminder,

Lars

[Jonathan Lee]

I have an Epson 2200 and have used the old and current Piezo inks on an Epson 1160. I love Piezo but there are the recurring and constafrustrating nt problems of nozzle clogging. Recently Epson has released a new ICC printer profile designed for the 2200. Using this profile on Epson mate is, to my eyes, every bit as good as Piezo. My 1160 is not unused.

www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/EditorialAnnouncement.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=42114986

[JohnnyV]

Sandy>I have been told that the use of dye based inks, instead of the pigment based inks of the Ultrachorme ink system, will give a smoother, less grainy look on Pictorico. But I am reluctant to actually try this from fear of damaging the printer. So, can anyone recommend from positive personal experience a dye-based ink that will work well in the 2200 without risk of clogging up the nozzles?

The only dye based inks for the 2200 are Lyson's Fotonics.

I have had no experience with dye inks in the 2200. But have much experience with dye based inks - Fontonics - in earlier Epson models. I'm running Fotonics in an Epson 1200 with zero problems or clogs.

I don't think there will be much of a problem with clogs as the dyes flow easier than pigments. But when you first install Lysonics it's best to either use cleaning carts or - what I do - is shoot Windex through each nipple with a syringe and small tube. Then install dye carts. If you need more info I can go into more detail.

The only supplier of 2200 Fotonics dye inks is inkjetgoodies.com:

http://www.inkjetgoodies.com/inks.htm

Here's the search link:
http://redrockinnovations.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=IJG&Category_Code=I14-1

http://www.lyson.com/includes/frames.html

Here's other suppliers that do not have 2200 dye inks:

http://www.mediastreet.com/

http://www.inkjetmall.com/

http://www.inkjetart.com/

http://www.inksupply.com/