Anyone been to the 'Stans?

[Bruce Watson]

I know about Kyrgyzstan having the world's largest walnut forest, and is the origin of walnuts in Europe.

Yes -- the Perian Walnut (aka the English Walnut). There's a species knows as Black Walnut that's native to North America, and it's prevalence in the hardwood forests of western NC was one of the reasons for the rise of the furniture industry there (after they ran out of good and easy to harvest hardwoods in New England). Sigh...

I remember a story from my time in Hickory, NC about 30 years ago. A family went on vacation for a couple of weeks. When they came home, their 200+ year old Black Walnut tree was gone. From the exact center of their front lawn! Neighbors said a tree removal company had come in, told the neighbors they'd been hired to remove the tree and tidy up while the owners were on vacation and wouldn't have to deal with the mess. And they supposedly did a good job, took out the stump and left the yard looking good -- except for the lack of a huge beautiful tree.

When the family came back they were livid. Turned out the tree removal company was legit, but had been hired by person or persons unknown (paid cash). Their contract had them prep and deliver the tree to a local saw mill. The saw mill turned it into furniture grade lumber and loaded it onto a guy's truck when he showed up to claim it. Paid cash again, of course.

An odd sort of larceny, that.

Another guy I know took over his father's business supplying saw mills. After a decade or so, one customer came up short and couldn't pay is bills. Had to close his milling business and do the bankruptcy thing, but he was an honest sort who wanted to make good. So one day an 18 wheeler showed up at my acquaintance's house in the country. Stacked completely full of walnut. Some of it 18" planks. Then another truck showed up. And another. And another. Four full truck loads of raw sawn and carefully dried black walnut. My guy built a barn over the wood to protected it (and not just from the weather), then proceeded to fill his house slowly but surely with black walnut furniture. Even redid his great room (so I heard -- never saw it) with walnut paneling and ceiling. And he still had plenty left over to sell. Figured the guy had paid his bill like five times over.

Trees are so interesting, and usually have so many interesting stories. I guess that's why I like them so much. As one can tell from my photographs.

[ckagy]

Almati, in Kazakhstan, used to be called Alma Ata, which means "Apple Father." That's where they're from!

[Jody_S]

I remember a story from my time in Hickory, NC about 30 years ago. A family went on vacation for a couple of weeks. When they came home, their 200+ year old Black Walnut tree was gone. From the exact center of their front lawn! Neighbors said a tree removal company had come in, told the neighbors they'd been hired to remove the tree and tidy up while the owners were on vacation and wouldn't have to deal with the mess. And they supposedly did a good job, took out the stump and left the yard looking good -- except for the lack of a huge beautiful tree.

When the family came back they were livid. Turned out the tree removal company was legit, but had been hired by person or persons unknown (paid cash). Their contract had them prep and deliver the tree to a local saw mill. The saw mill turned it into furniture grade lumber and loaded it onto a guy's truck when he showed up to claim it. Paid cash again, of course.

This isn't that unusual. I've had trees stolen from my property, in fact with portable sawmills I think it's getting even more common.

[Jody_S]

Depends on your definition of safe Less likely to sleep on 300-thread count sheets, less likely to have to eat something you don't want to, more likely to get robbed if you leave the resort. I'll take the wierd food and the yurt, and get to watch Golden Eagles hunt in 15,000 foot mountain peaks, and maybe getting stuck when the Soviet-era army truck breaks an axle on a "road".

If anyone does want to go, yes there are hotels, yes you can hire guides, etc. But there are people on couchsurfing who are looking to practice their English... I thought a taste of local hospitality might add a whole new dimension to the experience.

[Jody_S]

Stroke of luck: I was set up in a local park with my 8x10, and a man with a strong Russian accent stopped to chat about cameras and watches. Turns out he's an ethnic Russian from Kazakhstan, and of course I have wanted to travel there for years, not to mention we have just been discussing this here. I asked a bunch of tourism-related questions, I'm going to try to report everything he said before I forget.

There is no real tourism, as of today, in the region. However: Kazakh president/dictator-for-life Nazarbayev has said that tourism should be the focus of the state apparatus and eventually the economy, therefore it should be easy for North Americans to apply for, and obtain, a visa to go there. I asked if it would help if I could claim to be a photojournalist, freelance or not, documenting the experience of visiting the country, and he says this would 1) guarantee a visa, and 2) probably get me preferential treatment within Almaty.

I asked about travel: he says he works in a startup business renting luxury cars for $300/day approx. but there is no low-end rental market, in fact most Kazakhs can't afford a car. However, scooters and motorcycles are common and cheap, and no paperwork is required to buy or drive one (not sure what the cut-off is before needing a driver's license). A new scooter is $1200, presumably a used one can be purchased for $300-800 and re-sold when you're leaving. There are also trains, between cities, but these don't seem to be the principal means of travel. Buses are ubiquitous, and apparently not as dilapidated as you might find in parts of Africa; rates for travel of 500-600km between major cities run around $60, and apparently payable directly to the bus driver. If you slip him an extra $10 or $20, and if it fits (and you empty it of gas and oil), he will put your scooter in the baggage compartment.

Outside Almaty, where cost-of-living is higher than Montreal, it's a cheap place to visit where you can get a meal locally for about $4. People are friendly, he said I would not be in any sort of danger visiting, and that curious villagers would talk to me and offer me hospitality, because (in his words) they don't see a lot of large (he meant 'fat') Canadian photographers and it would be a momentous event to tell the grandchildren about. He said if I was stuck on the side of the road, broken down, stranded, not to worry because people would offer me food and even a few liters of gas, and not ask for payment. Police in Almaty are more professional and may have some awareness of international customs, but in the villages, he called the police 'stupid'. Bribes are a way of life, it seems. He says I might be stopped and taken to a police station, and kept there for as long as 48hrs; but I would not be in any danger, and once they realized I wasn't going to give them large sums of money, I would be set free. He said 'stay cool'. He recommended keeping US $100 in $20 in the sole of your shoe or somewhere safe, in case of emergencies, but otherwise use the local currency and there are modern supermarkets, gas stations, and ATMs so Visa/Mastercard is the way to go. Do not bring large amounts of cash.

He said police have an almost instinctive deference to authority; when he travels by car in the capital, he has an 'official' sticker to put in the window, stating he is on official gov't business. He printed it on his inkjet. But: this gets him waved through any sort of incident with police. He suggested that I should make up some sort of 'official' ID card prominently featuring 'Canada', 'journalist', and 'official'. He offered to make it for me when I arrived. He said this would solve 90% or more of my problems with local authorities, and the other 10% could be solved with a well-placed $10 or $20 bill. I suspect locals aren't as stupid as he lets on, and if I arrive with my official 'National Geographic' ID card, riding on a $300 scooter, someone might guess the card is fake. But he says I'm in no danger of anyone calling up NG or the gov't of Canada to check up on me.

Costs: I told him when I'd costed out the trip, I abandoned the venture when I realized I would have to budget around $10K. He looked at me like I was a crazy person. He says he pays $1300 for airfare, from Montreal to Almaty (through Amsterdam). Flying KLM, he buys directly on their website with a CC. Everyone else is $2700, which is what I had gotten as a price. Yes, hotels are expensive in Almaty, and car rentals difficult; but, once I got out of the capital, I should be able to survive comfortably for 2-3 weeks on $1000. So he estimated $2300 for the trip, I would allow $3500 based on what he said. For 1. Having a local contact would make all the difference in the world; I recommend finding someone online, as I was looking on couchsurfing or on any forum you know of, so that you have somewhere to start when looking for what you need. He did give me his name and email, I will pass it along to anyone seriously contemplating a trip. He says to go in the spring for the best weather, as you risk unexpected snow in the fall.

I asked about Tajikistan and Uzbekistan as well. Kazakhstan is the most stable, and richest of the 3. Uzbekistan is the most dangerous, especially on the southern border with Afghanistan where a white man without an armed escort is certain to be kidnapped. He says it's 'all business', if you pay you go free, if you don't no one will ever see you again. And they don't care if you're rich or poor. Outside of that southern region, it's much more similar to Kazakhstan, but with perhaps more poverty and a more desperate police who will be much more insistent on collecting bribes from you. He said nothing about Tajikistan. I asked specifically if I should go out of my way to identify myself as Canadian (a roundabout way of asking if there was significant anti-American sentiment). He said no, people were hospitable and would make no distinction between the two, or a European for that matter. I also asked if there was a significant organized crime faction, involved in opium transport from Afghanistan. He looked like he had never even considered that possibility. I gather the opium does indeed travel south and east (mostly through Turkey). He said he knew of areas in Almaty he would avoid because of crime, but then I know areas of Montreal I would avoid at 3am. A few years ago he had worked for a natural gas company, and had gone to southern Uzbekistan to sign a contract; he says the convoy had armed escorts and stayed in fenced, windowless compounds with only metal cots at night, but within Kazakhstan that sort of precaution was unheard-of and completely unnecessary.

Language: he is an ethnic Ukrainian, his parents were in Kazakhstan during the Soviet era as bureaucrats. He speaks only Russian (and English). If you're going to travel, 80-90% of people understand Russian, this is the only language you need to worry about. A simple travel book with some common phrases should do the trick. On couchsurfing, I did encounter people who had rudimentary English, either because they were academics or wanted to travel or just picked it up on the Internet; all wanted practice with a native English-speaker. That doesn't mean you can haggle to buy a motorcycle in English, but if you're the adventurous sort of traveler, you won't be stopped by that sort of inconvenience. I certainly won't. I forgot to ask about cell phone coverage, but he was holding a modern Samsung smartphone with a cracked screen, and he said he didn't want to replace it here because all the phones here are locked, and he would need to insert a different chip when back home. I gather if I brought my unlocked iPhone, I could easily buy a chip and get some local coverage for a reasonable amount. We pay far too much here anyway, for phone service; most of the world is substantially cheaper.

I realize I said earlier that my wife had vetoed the trip. What she actually said was that she wasn't going, and if I wanted to traipse all over the far-east on a camel, that was fine with her. I am seriously reconsidering this, and I may start saving for the trip later this year. $3500 is manageable.

[Wayne Lambert]

Scott,

Sent you a pm today.

Wayne

[John Olsen]

Sounds like an exciting project. But seriously Scott, take a good look at yourself and consider whether you look like some ethnic group that half the people over there would like to eradicate. We sent three guys over there for environmental work and one turned out to have an unfortunate apparent ethnic similarity. It got pretty scary. After that we only sent him to safe places like Pakistan. Be adventurous, but be smart too. Share your pictures when you get back.

[Scott Davis]

I'm still in the planning/evaluating phases of the trip. But no worries on the ethnic front - I'm a fat, hairy, balding white guy, so I'm highly unlikely to look like someone from the OTHER tribe that the majority wants to get rid of. If I do go, I'll probably try and take a crash course in Russian - I took two years of it in college, but it's been 20 since I tried to speak it, and I'm rather rusty. I can understand cyrillic writing unless it's highly stylized, so I'm halfway there on signage for things. I will keep everyone posted on what I decide to do, and of course share photos if I go. I'm not too terribly worried about personal safety - I've been to Cambodia, Belize, Bangkok and even Mexico City back in the 80s when virtually the whole city was gripped by abject poverty post-earthquake, and everything has been fine. My primary locations of interest on this trip would be Kyrgyzstan (I want to go see the caravansary at Tash Rabat, and maybe Karakol on the east side of Lake Issyk-Kul, and of course spend a day or two in Bishkek, for transit purposes) and the cities of Samarkand and Tashkent in Uzbekistan.

[Jody_S]

Ps: for those of you who have been married longer than I (#1 - 14yrs, #2 - 2yrs), is this a trap?

I realize I said earlier that my wife had vetoed the trip. What she actually said was that she wasn't going, and if I wanted to traipse all over the far-east on a camel, that was fine with her.

[Scott Davis]

Ps: for those of you who have been married longer than I (#1 - 14yrs, #2 - 2yrs), is this a trap?

I don't think you have to have been married for any length of time to know that that's a trap. Don't walk into it unless you really really have an itch to end the relationship.

But then again, someone making a statement like that is being really passive-aggressive, and you probably SHOULD end that relationship.