Cheap light 4x5 camera for architecture.

[Otto Seaman]

There is no inexpensive, full movement, yet light and compact view camera. If there was then we all have them ;-p

A Sinar F2 is well built, has full movements and costs $500 (used price in the USA). Brian's Tachihara costs about the same and is half the size nd weight, but will lack the rigidity, versatility, and range of movements. A $5000 Arca-Swiss is light, compact, yet solid but expensive. Of course there are dozens of other options but these illustrate the compromises you make. Don't forget that a heavier camera requires a heavier tripod. Personally my tripod cost more than my camera and lens, I consider it that important.

Most large format lenses are excellent, at least the modern ones in good overall condition. Remember that the degree of enlargement is less than for smaller format cameras so we can be more forgiving ;-p (They are also better corrected for distortion than most small format wide angle lenses.) Many architectural photographers will say they use their 90mm lens the vast majority of the time. The more you spend, the more movements you can make - the more expensive and larger lenses will have a larger image circle. A good compact 90/6.8 Rodenstock Grandagon-N MC can be found for $300-$400 and is a good match to a folding field camera with limited movements - i.e. landscapes and occasional architectural photos. A $500-$700 90/4.5 Grandagon with a wider range of movements would be the more professional option, best for use on a monorail with a bag bellows.

The old Cadet was a usable but lower grade camera. It's fine for starting out with though, and many similar monorails will be priced similarly low. Buy based on condition ~ might as well go for a nice looking one that hasn't been abused.

[Ken Lee]

If you plan to use a short lens, make sure the camera has interchangeable bellows or the bellows will support a short focal length without buckling. Some general purpose bellows are just too long for short lenses.

[Mark_S]

As others have replied, for interior arcitecture photography, you are going to want a wide lens, I would start with that, and use the bulk of your budget for the lens. You will want lots of coverage, since you will probably be wanting to have a lot of movement. The Schneider Super Angulon lenses would fit this bill, as would some others - Depending on what sorts of buildings you will be wanting to photograph, you are probably looking at wanting the 90mm or 75mm.

The camera is less of an issue - one big difference between large format and small formats is that the lenses will work on any camera, and the cameras are relatively cheap compared to good lenses. For architecture, you are probably going to need/want more movement than a landscape photographer would use, which probably means that a monorail would work best for you - this is good news, as well as bad - good news is that monorail cameras can be had for less money than most other styles (look for something like a Calumet ), bad news is that they are less portable than something like a Speed Graphic. The big disadvantage to a camera like the speed graphic is a lack of movements, and that they sometimes don't work well with wide lenses. I would pack all of this in a rolling suitcase - architecture means urban, which means that you don't have to carry the kit in a backpack - take advantage of that.

If after a while, you want to get a more portable setup, keep your lens(es), film holders, tripod etc, and buy a folding field camera like the Tachihara - and with relatively little additional cost, you have transformed your whole setup.

[Peter York]

Sinars are excellent and relatively cheap. For approx. $1200 you could get a lightweight monorail like the Toho FC-45x. http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm

[jb7]

A Sinar F2 is well built, has full movements and costs $500 (used price in the USA). Brian's Tachihara costs about the same and is half the size nd weight, but will lack the rigidity, versatility, and range of movements. A $5000 Arca-Swiss is light, compact, yet solid but expensive.

You can find used Arcas too, when I started in large format, in college in the eighties, there was a choice of an older Sinar, and an older Arca, and I gravitated towards the Arca, and have remained with it since... Of course, those cameras weren't older way back then.

In between, there was a very short lived experiment with a Calumet.

I suppose there's nothing like getting hands on experience with something, although the first quality camera you can use successfully might end up as being the one you measure others by.

[rdenney]

Determine what type of camera you need and then look for a lightweight model of that type.

If architecture is at all important to you, and if a 90 is a starting point, you'll be glad to start with a monorail-type camera. Put a good, wide-angle 90mm lens like an f/5.6 Super Angulon or an f/4.5 Grandagon--these will have larger image circles than the slower versions and for architecture you'll be glad you have it. Good, modern monorails will allow you to use a 90mm lens on a flat lens board, with a bag bellows. With the right bag bellows, it will focus a 47mm lens on a flat board.

Personally, I think the Sinar F2 or Norma present the best combination of wide availability, low prices, proven applicability, quality construction, and portability. The Sinar P is a more precise camera but far heavier. The F2 is intended to be the field configuration of the Sinar system.

I have also used a Cambo/Calumet, which is a bit bulkier than the Sinar, but which is even cheaper and also benefits from wide availability of parts and accessories. But it's not nearly as well-suited to short lenses. You'll need a recessed board and bag bellows for a 65mm lens, and a bag bellows for a 90mm lens with the Cambo.

Of the field cameras, the only one I'd consider anywhere near your price point (but still above it) is the Shen-Hao XPO. It provides Sinar compatibility for bellows and lens boards, and a triple-extension rail that will support fairly short lenses pretty effectively. But I think a monorail is more intuitive in situations requiring significant camera movements, especially for people new to large-format work.

Sinar made pro-grade cameras that were the standard of the professional art for so long that they are still flooding the market from studios that have gone digital. That is what keeps the prices low. The prices are pretty fully depreciated at this point, so it's easy to move on from Sinar and be able to get at least a good chunk of your money back out of it.

There are other brands, of course, and all of them are generally good--nobody really made crappy monorails, at least since the early 70's. The premium European monorail brands have traditionally been Linhof, Arca, and Sinar, plus Toyo and Horseman among Japanese brands.

And, yes, all large-format lenses are pretty good, even the really old ones. But not all shutters will still be in good running condition. Buy on condition. But also make sure you buy lenses with the appropriate coverage. For the 90, that will be pretty demanding for architecture work, which is why I recommended the faster wide-angle designs like the Super Angulon and the Grandagon (or Fuji SWD or Nikkor SW). For the longer focal lengths, any decent plasmat will be a good performer, and it will take quite a bit of technique to be able to tell the difference between good large-format lenses and the best large-format lenses, particularly if you are on a budget.

It should be possible to get an F2 kit in good condition and a good 90mm faster Super Angulon or Grandagon for your budget. You could start with a cadet and an f/8 lens, but they would only be a bit less expensive and you might outgrow them. It would be hard to outgrow an F2 and a f/5.6 Super Angulon.

Don't forget to budget for the other stuff, like the tripod, focus cloth, loupe, film holders, changing tent or darkroom, meter, and so on. Plus, a process for turning the film into something usable, either a darkroom, or a scanner setup, or a friendly local lab, or some combination of all of these.

Rick "for whom an F2 is his fourth 4x5 camera" Denney

[JW Dewdney]

I'd DEFINITELY go with an F2 or something like that for starting out (AND staying with) - an EXCELLENT and VERY underrated alternative is a Cambo Legend (well made and cheap!). They can do everything the F2 can do with only minor hit in the modularity department (expandability) - but it's only academic really. If you're really serious about it - you'll need a 90 for a lot of things - 150 or 180 for exterior views, 75 for many interiors - the only time I've ever used a 65 was for things like bathrooms or where space is super cramped and you have to pull off the impossible shot.

Don't use a field camera. You'll find that pulling out your own teeth would be more pleasurable than that...

[Otto Seaman]

But Brian shoots architecture with a wooden field camera?

[Mark Sampson]

I shot architecture (and landscape) with a wooden field camera for almost 30 years- first a Tachi, then a Zone VI. They got the job done. I used old Calumets and then a Sinar F2 on the job over the same period; they got the job done too. Now I use an old Sinar Norma; it works well. Kirk Gittings, one of America's leading architecture shooters (and a moderator here) used the very basic Calumet CC-402 wide-angle camera professionally for many years. Of course the vast majority of professional architecture photography is done digitally nowadays... but many of us like the 4x5 look for personal projects at least. If I was beginning today, I'd find a used Sinar-F2 and get a Norma rail clamp to replace the too-bif -F one- that will make a camera that will do anything you want significantly more portable.