When to go 4x5? Or to stay with mf?

[Ken Lee]

" I also happen to be at a place where I can set aside some cash to make a purchase"



Magic words, those...



You can't decide beforehand. Get something in Large format, or rent if you like. Go through the whole proces of creating some images. You may love it, or you may not. If not, then try renting or borrowing some other equipment.



If you're like many of us, you'll want to keep them all and use them all, and you'll soon find yourself in a "place where you" can't set aside some cash to make a purchase".

[Morey Kitzman]

I shot medium format for a couple years and for the last two years have shot large format. My medium format was a Mamiya 7II with excellent glass. The difference in quality and tonality is quite striking especially with 40 x 50 prints. Another thing to consider is the joy of composing your scene when looking at a 4 x 5 image on the ground glass. I debated the move to large format for quite awhile and had similar questions like yourself. Now I would not consider going back to medium, the quality is that much greater in larger. Good luck.

[Gem Singer]

Guy Tal,

I think you took my sentence out of context. Please re-read the entire paragraph. It, essentially, comes to the same conclusion that your last sentence does."The proper choice of tools". Pardon my clumsy choice of words.

By the way, is it proper for a contributor to insert a direct link to his/her website in his/her posting on this forum?

[Ralph Barker]

You've received lots of good advice on both sides of the question, Ag, so I'll give you some "marginal" advice. Skip the 4x5 and go 8x10. There's nothing like looking at an 8x10 Velvia chrome. And, a 150mm Super Symmar on 8x10 is way better than sliced bread, and almost as good as sex.

Of course, then you'll want a Jobo system to do your own E-6 processing. And, scanning 8x10 chromes can be a problem. There are a few desktop scanners that will handle 8x10, but their D-max specs may fall short of what you'll want to pull from your Velvia chromes. So, professional drum scans may be the better option. Then, you'll need to seriously upgrade your computer configuration to handle the huge image files. Then, in a couple of years you'll be having ULF dreams - visions of 8x20s or 11x14s dancing in your head at night.

In other words, image detail is a siren singing her temptation song on the rocky shore of equipment-induced poverty. ;-)

[John D Gerndt]

Ag,

6x9 doubles your sharpness (in theory) and keeps your ease of shooting and processing. It doesn't seem like the lenses get wide enough for you though. I shoot a Mamiya Universal with a 6x9 back and a 50mm lens and like it a lot but still it may not be enough for you.

Information costs money. If you have a dealer you can trust, go to him, explain and be willing to pay some for the chance to find out what works for you.

Shooting sheet film is quite a bit different that roll film and can lead to a serious depletion of funds as well as a shift away from what used to be quite "good enough". You better be sure you are willing to go there.

Cheers,

[Guy Tal]

Eugene Singer,
I don't think I took your sentence out of context since you repeat your assertion further on, saying "there is only a minimal amount perspective or depth of field control needed for landscape photography", which in my experience is simply not true. I think we agree on the concept of matching the tool to the job, but we seem to be at odds about which tool actually is most suitable.
And yes, I believe it is proper to include a link to one's web site. I was not making a commercial/promotional post. If anything, I think it provides some credibility to my experience with regards to landscape photography.

Guy
Scenic Wild Photography

[Harley Goldman]

I went through a similar dilemma a couple of years ago. For me, the biggest factor in going with LF was movements, especially tilt and to a lesser degree swing (I just use it less). As others have mentioned, in 6x7 you are using fairly long lenses and that will definitely limit your depth of field. Nothing is sweeter than using a bit of tilt on a nice landscape and seeing everything come into focus on the ground glass, even when it is wide open. Stop down and the details in the chromes are wonderfully sharp. If you know anyone who shoots 4x5, borrow a chrome and put the 6x7 and 4x5 side by side on a light box.

[Ag Jones]

I gotta say both wow and thanks!! I knew this was a passionate bunch and I got alot of input to read a few times. I find it funny that as I read each comment how I will agree with each post-the dreamer in me will say go for it or the accountant will say hold on you are good with a 645.

I am going to explore the nearest juco to see if their art department has any large format equip and maybe I can do a continuing ed class or something to have a trial.

Thanks again for all the fantastic advice!!!

-AG

[Brian Ellis]

I've never used 645, my medium format is 6x7, my large format is 4x5 and 8x10. I used to do my own printing in the darkroom, now I do it by scanning, Photoshopping, and printing with an Epson printer. In the darkroom I saw no difference in quality of print between 6x7 and 4x5 unless the print was larger than 11x14. Scanning with a moderately priced flat bed scanner is different however. I doubt that you would be happy with the quality prints you'd get after scanning 6x7 slides on the Epson 4870 though I can't speak from experience because I don't have the 4870/ I have a Linoscan 1400, an older scanner but about three times the price of the 4870 when new.

With that scanner and either the Epson 1280 or 2200 printers the largest prints I make from my 6x7 negatives are 8x10, anything larger doesn't have the quality I want. OTOH, I get great looking prints from 4x5 and 8x10 up to about 16x20. So if your long range plans are scanning with the 4870 and making prints in the 11x14 and up range, I'd be concerned that 6x7 wouldn't work for you. Are the friends who recommned that as a compromise scanning 6x7 transparencies on the 4870?

I doubt that you're going to see the kind of dramatic quality difference you saw between 35mm and 645 if you go from 645 to 6x7 until you get to prints in the 16x20 range but I don't know for sure since I've never used 645. I know that I could see a significant difference between 35mm and 6x7 even with just an 8x10 print but I see no difference in the darkroom between a 6x7 and a 4x5 print at that print size or even at 11x14.

[Andy Jones]

Ag, I certainly went through the same angst but just decided (recently) to do it! The Nikon 90/8 is the one I use the most and it's actually pretty wide. As you drop in focal length you run into image circle size problems and the need for center filters. As others have suggested, try it first and see. After my first milestone, I'm no longer in any hurry to explore wider angles. I also use QuickLoad (Provia) for the convenience.

One thing no-one has really touched on is printing. For me the large format moniker refers to the print size and I got into 4x5 because the creation of large (24x30) landscapes is not something digital (my other camera and LF meter is a Canon 10D) can do easily/cheaply and it had always been a dream. If you are not thinking of printing up to this sort of size, then the MF vs LF issue is much more relevant. If you want to print these guys, then the Epson 7600 is a great way to go (24"wide) and you should figure something like this into your thinking - for now or later - along with the scanner issue. Even for the 24x30 prints I'm "throwing away" pixels from my 2500dpi scans, so I could go a bit larger if I had a 9600 ;-).

If your goal is large detailed landscape prints, you need to determine 1) "How large?" and 2) "How detailed?" Then other questions will be easier to answer. It may turn out, however, that the versatility of the movements on a 4x5 is high on your list of capabilities. There are smaller formats than 4x5 that have those capabilities, but use smaller film and thus limit the ultimate print size (see #1 and2 above!)

From a LF newbie who's really enjoying 4x5 and large prints - go for it, you'll love it. You seem to have done your research and will succeed!

Andy