Pyro + Hardening fixer

[Nasser]

Dear All,
Some of the pro photographers advice me not to use hardening fixer when he knew I develop with PMK pyro! Is he right?
I develop my negative for platinum and palladium process.

Nasser

Thank you in advance

[Ken Lee]

What film are you using ? If it's greater than 50 years old, then hardener may be required, but modern films do not require it.

See this section of The Darkroom Cookbook which states that modern films already contain hardener and that hardener in fixer is therefore not required.

[Peter Lewin]

First, the short background: I use PMK and non-hardening alkaline fixer (TF-4) simply because that's what Gordon Hutchings recommends, and he developed PMK, so he should know. But beyond that, my understanding is that PMK itself hardens the emulsion during development, which would make subsequent hardening redundant.

[Kirk Gittings]

So while it may be redundant, it doesn't cause any problems? I have never seen any problems created by using a hardening fixer.

[Jim Graves]

In The Book of Pyro", 3rd, ed., 1992, p.18, Hutchings says:

"Fixers with hardening agents reduce the image stain. The use of non-hardening fixers allows optimum staining."

Whether that opinion is true or has changed since then, I don't know.

[Jim Graves]

In The Book of Pyro", 3rd, ed., 1992, p.18, Hutchings says:

"Fixers with hardening agents reduce the image stain. The use of non-hardening fixers allows optimum staining."

Whether that opinion is true or has changed since then, I don't know.

It just dawned on me that Hutchings also originally recommended returning the fixed negatives to an "after bath" (following fixing) in the used developer because it "induces the formation of stain in the developed negatve." (same citation, p.19.)

l believe he later dropped that recommendation as being ineffective.

If that is so, that might well affect his opinion that you should not use hardening fixers.

[sanking]

So while it may be redundant, it doesn't cause any problems? I have never seen any problems created by using a hardening fixer.

Nor have I, and it may prevent some problems with old style emulsions, of which there are quite a few still available today.

Sandy

[Kimberly Anderson]

I'm using F-24 fixer b/c of the recommendation from the cookbook. Other than the recommendation, I'm not sure I see any tangible benefits. It just makes me feel good.

[IanG]

Nor have I, and it may prevent some problems with old style emulsions, of which there are quite a few still available today.

Sandy

Well slightly less avaiaable with the demise of EFKE, and they were the films which would benefit the most fro a hardening fixer. When I began using EFKE films in the 70's the lack of hardening was far worse, I used to use a Chrome alum hardening stop bath (a Kodak formula) or add a few drps of Formaldehyde to my developer.

There was a lot of rubbish written about staining dedvlopers by some well known people. They used to advise putting film back in the deveoper after fixing as that re-0inforced the staining, all mit dis=d was add more base stain.

I use a staining print developer occasionally and the stain is not affected at all by acidic solutions, films aren'y either. So 110% what Sandy says.

Ian

[Drew Wiley]

I routinely use TF4 for just about everything, but in a pinch have substituted hardening fixers in conjunction with PMK and haven't noticed any difference.