Pros and Cons of a B&S Grover 5x7 camera?

[JohnnyV]

Hi Everyone,

I just purchased a Burke&James 5x7 Grover - monorail.

Guess I should have asked these questions before I purchased...but the camera looked very well thought out and the price was right!

I don't have the camera in my hands yet...in a few days.

I was wondering if anyone here had any experience with this camera and it's pros and cons?

What's the widest lens the camera can use - considering the bellows compression?

Geez..there is no Tmax-400 in 5x7? Guess I gotta cut down 8x10!

Thanks,

John V.

[Jon Shiu]

Pros: cheap and sturdy Cons: base requires a tripod with large (3.5in) mounting surface, using tilt on back is problematic due to same knobs used for tilt and rise/fall.

[Bob Fowler]

Don't dispair about the Tmax issue, J&C Classic 400 is also a real nice film.

[JohnnyV]

Bob >Don't dispair about the Tmax issue, J&C Classic 400 is also a real nice film.

How does Classic 400 compare to Tri-x?

Thanks!

John V.

[Ernest Purdum]

The camera has a good range of movements - a definite pro. Con, using the movements is a little awkward and involves taking knobs loose. Better find a little drawtring bag to put them in so they don't get lost. More pro's. It's quite sturdy, the friction focusing drive avoids the problems of many old rack and pinion drives and the camera can take a wide variety of backs.



A con. The minimum distance from lensboard to groundglass is about 3 1/2" and the maximum about 19 3/4" - it doesn't allow a very broad range of focal lengths.

Altogether, it's a very useful camera in a very desirable size. I think you will enjoy using it.

[MIke Sherck]

I have a wooden B&J 5x7 field camera which I believe is pretty much the same as yours except that mine has a wooden bed and yours has a rail. On my camera, my 127mm Ektar is the shortest lens practical, if you expect to use many movements. On the other hand, the camera has very complete movements on both front and rear standards and personally I've not had many problems with having the same knob control more than one movement (i.e. on both the front and rear standards the same knob controls both rise/fall and tilt.) You learn how to hold one setting steady with a finger while you adjust the other and tighten the knobs down with the other hand. Hard to explain, easy to do in practice: it's not a big deal.

One thing about the two sets of knobs on the rear standard: one set has to be removed in order to tilt the rear standard. Obviously, as these cameras haven't been made for many years, new matching knobs are a little hard to come by. Try not to lose them! On the other hand, if you do lose them I believe that any decent hardware store can supply replacements -- they just won't match the other knobs.

Mike

[Jim Galli]

I have a 5X7 Grover out in the shop that came to me for well less than a hundred bucks. In mines case, the best feature is the Packard shutter that was installed as an integral part of the camera. I use it to test and use barrel lenses that can be had for a song. Pro's; Nearly indestructable and emminently useable. Con's; Shall we say "appearance challenged." Al Weber has a story about his Hasselblad being set up for a shot in Scandanavia when a friend came to take him to lunch. So they just left it standing in the street and went and had lunch. I dare say with the "Grover" you might just get away with that in Los Angeles. If you left it too long though you'd get a ticket payable for littering. Such is the general consensus on B&J Grover's. That aside, I have made more than a few fine photos with it.

[Bob Fowler]

"How does Classic 400 compare to Tri-x? "

Given the choice of Tri-X and Classic 400 for portraiture (and I've only used Classic 400 in large format), I'd take Classic 400. Though I don't have the facilities, nor the desire, to do a spectral response test, it doesn't seem to have as much red sensitivity as Tri-X. I say this because I don't see blemishes on skin tones as much with Classic 400 as I do with Tri-X. Likewise, I've found that Classic 200 is also a great "people" film, much like the now discontinued 120 Verichrome Pan. Since I'm working in 5X7 and 4X5, and the largest prints I usually make are 8X10 and 11X14 (with an occasional 16X20), grain isn't a big concern for me. At those sizes, you can't really tell much difference (in portraiture) anyway.

I must confess that I'd rather shoot HP5+ than Tri-X in the dreaded 35mm...

[Dan Ingram]

Ilford makes both HP5 and FP4 in 5x7 -- I use that and the JandC film in my Grover. I agree with the appearance-challenged con, but some people like the gnarly look. Besides, it may get picked up as litter, but it'll never be a navigation hazard -- that bright red bellows can be seen from space! The Grover is my introduction to 5x7 -- my whole setup cost less that $250, and that's with a Goerz Red Dot Artar, Packard shutter, 4x5 reducing back, and lots of other goodies. Of course, you get what you pay for -- the B&J is not a precision machine. But it's tough as nails and takes fabulous images. I fell for the 5x7 format using this camera, and until I can afford one of Canham's fine machines the Grover will do nicely. I just wish they'd called it something else. (Cookie Monster? Big Bird?)

[JohnnyV]

Wow...thanks everyone for the info. I really appreciate all the feedback.

My original quest was to make my own 6x17cm pano camera so I began to research different cameras to get ideas on construction. I saw a picture of a 4x5 Grover and really liked the design.

As luck or fate would have it, the Grover popped up this past weekend - and it was love a first sight. I really like the look of it to tell you the truth - that gnarly look! I might just shoot 5x7 and crop when necessary...but I might just build my own 6x17cm back with either custom cut film holders or roll back. Though I have to work out the limited minimum bellows focusing distant. My brother and father have CNC Bridgeport milling machines that I could use to help fabricate parts.

My other large format camera is the Arca-Swiss Discovery which is built like a precision instrument. It's beautiful...but at times I feel I don't want to shoot with it because I might get it dirty!