Sepia Toning Too Strong

[andreios]

Some interesting ideas... I use Moersch toners, to get only slight sepia tone in the highlights I dilute the bleach and use it only for something like 30 seconds. With this method however it is absolutely necessary to have a fresh toner and move the print in the bleach consistently all the time to prevent irregular bleaching.

Anyway, I'd "second" the suggestion to read Tim Rudman's toning book - it is a gem - one of the best darkroom books I have!

[bob carnie]

I have never heard of this technique , internet or no internet. Could you post your workflow with some examples?

The one thing about the internet is people assume that if it isn't on the internet it doesn't exist. There is a lot of knowledge out there that doesn't get shared for whatever reason, usually because of the a$$hats that like to argue about everything and know nothing. The net effect of their behavior is that knowledge is stifled. The people out there that already have the knowledge have no motivation to share it when the aforementioned population decide to act like themselves which seems to be all the time these days. I'll give it a 50/50 shot that someone will come along and argue about mixing the sulphide and developer.



There is no answer to that since everyone is looking for a different thing and your dilutions and developers will be different than mine. Try 50/50 to start. I haven't used that paper so I can't really give you any advice about toning it.

[C_Remington]

To all you chemistry PHd's, how does the toner/developer process work?

[GSX4]

Bob.... I use the Kodak Sepia II kits(i stocked up before they were discontinued)'and dilute the bleach to stock as per instructions. I then pour off about 100ml of stock, and add 600ml of water diluting it 1:6 . This seems to work quite well for most chlorobromide papers and yields on average a 30 second bleach time to cut the highlights back and just add a hint of a warm tone. During the initial few seconds into bleaching, i do see the paper take on a blue/grey hue ever so slightly. It's not too easy to see, but its there. After 30 or so seconds, when I see the high values are where they need to be, into the wash it goes for about 10 to 15 minutes. Then the print goes into the sulphide bath for 2 minutes, and back into the wash. After another 10 or 15 minutes in the wash, I run them through a selenium bath, just to get a bit more oomph in the blacks. I find that the print gets warmer too, but can quickly turn to plum color if you don't keep your eye on it. I only tone for the blacks, and not the color.... Then it's back into the wash for 90 minutes.... I do find that if the warmth is not there during the first bleach back and sulphide tone, it can take another pass through the chems... Even after the initial selenium tone. YMMV

[bob carnie]

Hey Andrew

thanks pretty much what I do, but if you look at Patricks post I think he is suggesting mixing the sulfide with paper developer first. Its new to me and I would like to hear how it works.

Bob.... I use the Kodak Sepia II kits(i stocked up before they were discontinued)'and dilute the bleach to stock as per instructions. I then pour off about 100ml of stock, and add 600ml of water diluting it 1:6 . This seems to work quite well for most chlorobromide papers and yields on average a 30 second bleach time to cut the highlights back and just add a hint of a warm tone. During the initial few seconds into bleaching, i do see the paper take on a blue/grey hue ever so slightly. It's not too easy to see, but its there. After 30 or so seconds, when I see the high values are where they need to be, into the wash it goes for about 10 to 15 minutes. Then the print goes into the sulphide bath for 2 minutes, and back into the wash. After another 10 or 15 minutes in the wash, I run them through a selenium bath, just to get a bit more oomph in the blacks. I find that the print gets warmer too, but can quickly turn to plum color if you don't keep your eye on it. I only tone for the blacks, and not the color.... Then it's back into the wash for 90 minutes.... I do find that if the warmth is not there during the first bleach back and sulphide tone, it can take another pass through the chems... Even after the initial selenium tone. YMMV

[patrickjames]

Bob, I don't use it too often and I don't keep track. The net effect of mixing the sulphide and the developer is the print will be toned overall, but with less effect. As I mentioned above, if the print is only partially bleached the tone will be split of course, and the bleached part will get a full toning. If the print is bleached back, then toned with the sulphide/developer, the toning affects the whole print, just not as much as straight sulphide. That is why I suggested it to the OP.

I have some toning to do later. I'll see if I can't tear up a few "waste" prints and make up the toner. I am going off of memory though, so... I really need to start writing things down now that I am getting into my 40's. I came up with a great Ammonia toner a year or so ago but I will be damned if I can remember what was in it! At least I remembered the Ammonia...

I also mentioned pre-sulphiding as a way to knock down the color and that can be easily done.

Double toning (twice through the process) is a great way to give a little oomph to the color on Ilford MGIV, a paper which doesn't tone very dramatically unlike some others. I just did this recently and have those handy-
Once through (partial toning)-



Twice through, about the same amount of bleach back limiting the effect to the highlights-



I probably selenium toned these afterwards. Usually do.

[bob carnie]

Patrick and Greg

Both methods I have never tried, who says old dogs cannot learn new tricks.

I will give both a try for myself, thanks

[patrickjames]

Greg, that is my experience as well with reverse sepia toning/pre-sulphiding. It tends to cool the color down and limits the reaction of the bleach somewhat.

I didn't get into the darkroom last night, but thinking about this since my last post retrieved a few tidbits from the lost areas of my mind. (It is a mess in there). The sulphide/developer combination has to be matched so that redevelopment takes place in the time period that the toning is taking place. In an earlier post I speculated 50/50, but that will be wrong. One will need a strong developer and a weak toner. Toning is almost instant with full strength toner. Maybe a tidbit or two more of information will surface in time.

It also occurred to me that one could use a very dilute developer to slowly bring back the image, then finish it with sulphide. I have never tried this though, although it might give more flexibility to the process than a sulphide/developer mix. I might actually give this a try...

I know there is a collective head scratching going on out there about this method, but FWIW, I didn't come up with this myself. It was passed to me from Gene Nocon. I got a few little nuggets from him.

[bob carnie]

Ok I may be thick here but just to be sure.

Patrick you are suggesting adding sodium suphide to a working developer? I think you are suggesting this.

I am not talking about bleaching a developed out print then redeveloping with sulphide added to the developer.

Its been a long winter in Canada and getting brain freeze is very possible.

[patrickjames]

Ok I may be thick here but just to be sure.

Patrick you are suggesting adding sodium suphide to a working developer? I think you are suggesting this.

I am not talking about bleaching a developed out print then redeveloping with sulphide added to the developer.

Its been a long winter in Canada and getting brain freeze is very possible.

Bob, I don't think I was suggesting that, although...

In the process of thinking about all of this, the thought did occur to me, but I would speculate that sulphide would tone the entire paper, even the parts that received no exposure. I am planning to test it just to see what would happen to satisfy my curiosity. Next time I tone I will throw an undeveloped piece of paper straight into the sulphide.