Scanning velvia...is this what to expect or can it be better?

[Zaitz]

You're in the UK? Like Lenny said, send the film to Tim Parkin. The drum scans are ridiculously cheap.

http://cheapdrumscanning.com/

[Ken Lee]

Tim isn't "just" a highly competent scanner operator: he's an accomplished Large Format photographer, publisher, writer, expert, etc.

You should read what he has to say about different color films You might change your approach too

Please show us what you end up with.

[Meekyman]

I too part in a workshop with Tim Parkin and Dav Thomas back in September and it was that experience which was the "pushing over the edge point" of actually buying a camera and trying this out. Really enjoyed myself that day and am enjoying the bigger camera. I guess I'm at the point where I don't want to consider a drum scan for every image and really would like to be able to scan and print upto A3 (~20x16 inches) by myself...hence the Epson scanning. I quite like this image and so maybe I will go for a drum scan on this one.

Ken.....in terms of changing my approach, could you expand? I have lots to learn and am eager, so please I will take it constructively. I am slowly coming to understand when I might prefer which type of film if what is you are alluding to and maybe velvia wasn't the "right" choice here?

Cheers

Graham

[Ken Lee]

My 2 cents is that once we scan an image we can add saturation and contrast ad infinitum. Given enough practice or a well-made profile or series of adjustment layers, we can probably mimic the look of many color films, including their non-linear spectral response curves if we want - even Velvia.

That being said, Tim has illustrated that certain color negative films have remarkable dynamic range and fine grain (or dye clouds if you prefer), right up there with black and white films, and certainly beyond what we get with transparency materials. Kodak Portra comes to mind, but see his site(s) for more information and the latest updates.

Even if you don't get a drum scan, you can still learn how to scan color materials with him, using the equipment you already own, with which he is also familiar.

[Meekyman]

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the reply.

I am also using kodak Portra as well and the commercial scannner I have been using has managed to do an Ok job on the negatives I have sent! I quite like the output, probably because it isn't "in your face", a very subtle gentleness to the images and also because the occasions I have used it, I could dispense with nd grad filters!!!

Cheers

Graham

[Drew Wiley]

No Portra film will ever become a Velvia simply by adding contrast after scanning. The dye curves of Velvia are highly separated, those of Portra overlap to a considerable degree. This means that, regardless of the difference in latitude, one
cannot differentiate hues in an analogous manner. They are different animals. It's like mixing paint. Once you've created a
neutral, it's very difficult to extract the mud from any hypothetical purity of hue. You can easily change the overall cast, or
where it lies on the curve, or the saturation - but saturated or contrasty mud is still mud. That's a basic distinction between
how a skintone-balanced color neg film like Portra is engineered, and a chrome film. The sad thing is, that the more neutral
chrome films like Astia and E100 are being discontinued. Boosting them if needed would be a more realistic task for PS.

[Ken Lee]

If we know what the dye curves are, can't we merely apply the same curves digitally ?

Isn't that done all the time when profiling monitors, scanners, cameras etc. ? And don't we do the same when correcting film for print media, or motion picture film in the lab ?

[Drew Wiley]

No. Impossible. Just study the published curves. At a certain point they overlap and cross-contaminate. The geometry of the
curves become quite important. This is what Photoshoppers generally fail to perceive. There are all kinds of ways to potentially improve things - many being a real headache - but it's way easier to get off on the right foot to begin with, and
pick a film with the color personality you like for your subject matter. This is basic color theory. Once the "dirt" is in the hue,
you can't get it out. Most color neg films do this deliberately to create "pleasing" skintones, regardless of visual reality.
Ektar is a little different, with somewhat better separation between dye spikes, but also a bit tricky in mixed light situations.
In short, a "typical" color neg shot will always look like color neg, even if you boost saturation. But with our selection of
chrome films diminishing, it's inevitable there is going to be a lot of experimentation.

[Preston]

No Portra film will ever become a Velvia simply by adding contrast after scanning.

In my experience, this is true. Personally, I am happy for the difference since I use Portra for scenes that have a dynamic range greater than what Velveeta or Astia can handle, or in situations where I don't want the higher contrast of chromes. I also like it's subtle gradation in tone and softer color. Sure, one can attempt to punch Portra up in Photoshop, but why not just use Velvia instead, assuming the lighting conditions are compatible.

I agree that it's sad that Astia is going away. I have used it for a very long time and I love the results I get. Fortunately, I have a pretty decent stash of it the freezer.

--P