Tree in Snow

[gmfotografie]

Hello altogether,

I´m trying to shoot a tree in snow on a light cloudy day.
The contrast of the scene is only 3.

I want to have the tree on Zone II; therefore the snow will fall on Zone V.
What can I do that the snow is placed on zone VIII?

My suggestions are:

.) Placing the tree on II; Develop with N + 1 (gives snow VI) and dodging the snow during the paper development
.) Placing the tree on II; Develop with N + 2 (gives snow VII) and dodging the snow during the paper development
.) Placing the tree on III; Develop with N+ 2 (gives snow VIII)

Which step will be the best given a good print;
Do you have other suggestions?

Thx Michael

[C. D. Keth]

I would do your last option. That should give detail all around.

[Doremus Scudder]

...I´m trying to shoot a tree in snow on a light cloudy day.
The contrast of the scene is only 3.

Are you sure of this? A lot of times snowy situations will give you a lot of metering flare, which means your metered shadow values will read unnaturally high. This coupled with the fact that much of the dark areas in your scene are likely to small to really meter accurately means that your darkest values may be significantly darker than the average and flarey reading your meter gives you. Take this into consideration when exposing (I'd give an extra stop in this situation myself, thereby moving your snow values one stop up the scale).

I want to have the tree on Zone II;

I might also question your shadow placement. Zone II is featureless black. Is this what you really want? Keep in mind that your meter, even if it is a one-degree spot meter, is averaging the values in its field of view. That means that you are placing an average low value in featureless black when you place this in Zone II. Do you really not want any texture in the shadows?(If so, fine; just though I'd ask...)

My suggestions are:

.) Placing the tree on II; Develop with N + 1 (gives snow VI) and dodging the snow during the paper development
.) Placing the tree on II; Develop with N + 2 (gives snow VII) and dodging the snow during the paper development
.) Placing the tree on III; Develop with N+ 2 (gives snow VIII)
...
Do you have other suggestions? Thx Michael

I use N+ developments, but don't like them nearly as much as some. For me the increase in grain, base fog and extended highlight separation in contrast to mid-tone separation leads me to underdevelop flat scenes and use printing controls, etc. to compensate.

In your case, I think I'd assume that my shadow reading was being affected by flare and place the tree in Zone IV, expecting it to come out Zone III. That would place your snow in Zone VII. I'd develop N+1 and then use a higher contrast paper to take up any of the slack in contrast. Keep in mind that you will usually get better micro-contrast in your print by printing on a higher paper grade instead of using extended development to increase contrast. I often indicate in my exposure record that I want to print a certain scene on grade 3 (or higher) paper. I do this very often with flatly-lit scenes.

A couple of other ways to increase contrast without extra development:

If you're shooting Tri-X, just slap on a red filter. Due to the spectral response of the film to red light, you will get a contrastier result. For me, it's about N+2/3. Just remember to compensate for exposure. If you have neutral density filters, you can try shooting at a much longer exposure time and get the reciprocity failure to help give you more contrast. I really like the look of contrast increased in this way. Figure a 10% development-time-increase equivalent for each doubling of the indicated exposure time. So, if the indicated time is, say 1 minute and you expose for 3 minutes (the right adjustment for Tri-X on my table), you will get the equivalent of a 20% increase in development.

Just some thoughts.

Have fun,

Doremus

[Chuck P.]

I would have to disagree that Zone II is featureless black, it is to have the "slightest suggestion of texture" or "some slight detail"--------that is, if your effective film speed is set so as to optimize the density value at Zone I. Zone III of course is the first zone that yields full detail. Zone 0 is best described as featureless or full black ; Zone I is slight tonality but no texture, etc, etc......

If you actually desire a Zone II placement for the tree, then that's what I would do, but then I would also probably expose another sheet at a Zone III placement.

[Kevin J. Kolosky]

If you have a view camera thats only three negatives. Do each one that you have suggested yourself and see which one you think is best. You will learn something.

In the meantime I would suggest that snow isn't always "zone 8" if you want some texture and substance to it.

[David Schaller]

+1 to what Doremus said. I always mistrust meter readings in snowy scenes, even when it is overcast. I would suggest that either you walk right up to meter the shadow, or assume the flare and place the shadow on Zone III, which I always do, or IV. There always seem to be darker areas that fall below the shadow I've metered, especially at distance. I also would develop the snow highlights for Zone VII, and then you can go to a higher contrast filter or paper grade in printing.
Dave

[john borrelli]

You have received advice from experienced photographers.

The only question I would have you consider, assuming this is not a hypothetical exercise, is to be sure as Doremus noted, that there are just three stops difference between the tree trunk and the snow.

[gmfotografie]

Thank you very much for your clear answers!

I will take your advice and will give it a try tomorrow because we have great snowfall today :-)

ps
i don´t have yet a large format camera; just a hassi 501CM
i develop with ID76 / Tri400 enlarging with a Durst 1200 501CLS

[henk@lf]

Doremus, as always excellent thoughts !

I must say I learn a lot by reading your comments in different threads !

Off topic, I know, but thanks anyway !

[Lenny Eiger]

First of all, there is not an agreed-upon number of zones. AA had his, but there are many others. I use a 10 zone system, which I find much simpler. I consider I to be black and II to be what I call "bits and pieces" and III to be full detail. I also consider there to be 4 stops from 3 to 7. I took that from Minor White's version of reality.... it's all arbitrary until it gets to the development chart on has in one's darkroom - that matches to these N numbers...

We also don't know what kind of contrast range you are looking for. We don't know what you mean by a "good print". What would be an example you are trying to shoot for?

I'd place the tree on Zone III and develop at N+1...

However, this is all so arbitrary.... and you are using Tri-X and D-76, which I wouldn't use, either - in a snow situation.

I'm going to have to go with Kevin's opinion. Borrow a view camera, and try each combination...

Lenny