Calling on all owners of Hypergon lenses...or those with knowledge/experience of them

[Tin Can]

An amazing depth of data!

I think Bryan can carry on now!

Thank you Emmanuel!

[Jac@stafford.net]

[...] it appears that these are not plain Hypergon elements as hoped. I also have a measurement for one Hypergon focal length now from a private party and these are massive comparatively.

Keyword to keep in mind during your research: sky camera.

[Corran]

Thank you for the wealth of information Emmanuel.

I have heard of someone in the far east remaking Hypergons by hand. I wonder if it is true? And didn't Wisner plan on coming out with modern Hypergons?

These are apparently not, and yes Jac that is a good observation. Are you aware of a lens design with 4 elements, the outer of which are these extreme curved elements, the inner more simple plano-convex? I have been searching various texts and have not come upon anything.

[Mark Sampson]

Ron Wisner announced several things that never actually happened, like his 4x5 SLR. Would have been nice if he'd been able to come through.
(On a slightly related note, I wonder how many of his casket lens sets were produced and sold.)
Corran, best of luck in your endeavor.

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

Hello everybody!

From Randy Moe
An amazing depth of data!

Hi Randy. The data can be found in Warren Smith's book, a very thick and not really easy to read technical book for engineers. And is is not really a cheap book, but may be it can be found at a reasonable price as a used item today.
Not all lens designs can be handled by OSLO-EDU, due to the limited features of the free version of this professional software, but the Hypergon is something very easy for OSLO-EDU, only txo elements. It is quick and easy to manually enter data into the software from old-style documents printed on paper e.g. printed versions of old patents now accessible for free at google-patents for example.
I ran the above simulation on a 20 year old PC machine, simulation results are displayed within a fraction of a second. Very amazing indeed

My opinion is that the Hypergon is a fascinating object as a collector's item. A masterpiece of optical engineering of the past. But I do not think it is a really desirable nor actually a useable lens for the hobbyist of the XXI-st century!


From Corran:
Are you aware of a lens design with 4 elements, the outer of which are these extreme curved elements, the inner more simple plano-convex?

Well, while typesetting this message, I do not have W. Smith's book handy, the next step in historical ultra-wide angle lenses (100° and more) following the Görz Hypergon is the Zeiss Topogon (Robert Richter, 1933, US patent 2,031,792) described on page 300 of W. Smith's book, but in the Topogon design the very thin menisci are negative elements, they and are located inside the lens, behind thick positive outer menisci. So exactly the contrary of what you are thinking about.

But as soon as I have W. Smith's book handy, I'll have look and see if something is mentioned corresponding to your question.

[Corran]

Thanks Emmanuel. Yes, I considered the Topogon but as you say the design does not seem to match.

My opinion is that the Hypergon is a fascinating object as a collector's item. A masterpiece of optical engineering of the past. But I do not think it is a really desirable nor actually a useable lens for the hobbyist of the XXI-st century!

Well, yes and no. As I've never used one, I can't say for certain, but my understanding is that the 75mm and 90mm versions cover 8x10, something no modern lens can do in that focal length. The 90mm XL, which I own, just barely misses the corners on 8x10. It would work for whole-plate. Of course the image quality of the Hypergon may be far less than a modern lens, but I think that's okay considering the amazing coverage, especially in conjunction with the spinning star fan to correct for fall-off. The 150mm version would apparently work and cover my 8x20 camera which would be an amazing lens to use, assuming I could get the thing to work without showing the front bed in the frame! So I am interested in the Hypergon to use, not as a collector. But today the scarcity of them and collector value has clearly put the price into the stratosphere.

I haven't had a chance, but for my 8x20 I am at some point going to try a pinhole at the 150mm focal length to see what kind of image I could get from a lens-less camera. I imagine the Hypergon should at least be a little better performance than that .

[Tin Can]

Found the book as Print on Demand for $110 and Good used for $16, both from Abes.

I ordered the used one, but it may be beyond my skill level.

Thanks for the tip!

[EdSawyer]

Looks ex-military or at least ex-aerial mapping/surveillance. Seems most like parts of a Planigon, (sort of like a metrogon) but hard to say. Do they form an image if two are put together?

It's possible they are just windows of some type, though they seem small for that purpose, and do have an optical coating so that seems unlikely.

good luck
-Ed

[EdSawyer]

Let's post the auction too, since that might help:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Goerz-AM-Op...-/254104314057

[Tin Can]

Here is a Hypergon Image with many details and source materials.

http://www.glennview.com/note1.htm

I had forgot about my friend Glenn...