Drum or flat scan?

[Professional]

Again, where i can get a good drum scanner, say Howtek 4500 or any drum scanner that can scan up to 8x10?

I still hold on my V750, but everyday or every time i read about flatbed vs. drum scanners it made me boiling from inside to get a drum scanner, for me i can print at any size if i have the photos at high resolution, anywhere from 8x10" up to 40x50", i have 3 prints from my DSLR done at 40x50 and they look fine or decent for me, i didn't test my H4D-60 yet but this will be my king for quality prints, but i want to put my LF on top for printing.

If you know any place where i can find good working drum scanner up to 8x10 please let me know.

[sanking]

Again, where i can get a good drum scanner, say Howtek 4500 or any drum scanner that can scan up to 8x10?

I still hold on my V750, but everyday or every time i read about flatbed vs. drum scanners it made me boiling from inside to get a drum scanner, for me i can print at any size if i have the photos at high resolution, anywhere from 8x10" up to 40x50", i have 3 prints from my DSLR done at 40x50 and they look fine or decent for me, i didn't test my H4D-60 yet but this will be my king for quality prints, but i want to put my LF on top for printing.

If you know any place where i can find good working drum scanner up to 8x10 please let me know.

I have not dealt with them personally but this company has a good reputation. http://www.genesis-equipment.com

They sell refurbished drum scanners, and also high end flatbeds. But this equipment is heavy and shipping to the U. A. E. is going to cost an arm and a leg. Not a problem of course if you have a lot of arms and legs.

Sandy

[Professional]

I have not dealt with them personally but this company has a good reputation. http://www.genesis-equipment.com

They sell refurbished drum scanners, and also high end flatbeds. But this equipment is heavy and shipping to the U. A. E. is going to cost an arm and a leg. Not a problem of course if you have a lot of arms and legs.

Sandy

Great, thank you very much!

Well, as long if it is very expensive itself without the shipping then it will be not big deal with shipping then, if i don't have enough arms and legs then i still have my wife's arms/legs, if not enough then my kids are also available

Are you Sandy King of Pyrocat?

[JBelthoff]

Just curious, there is a lot of color in the files I downloaded. I assume you made the scan in RGB? With my scanner and software I get a much cleaner scan of B&W negatives in grayscale with Green than with RGB.

I converted the 4000/13um scan and the 2000/13um scan to grayscale, the rezzed up the smaller one in increments in PS using Bicubic best for enlargement. Quite frankly I don't see much difference at all in resolution between the two samples when I look at them at 271% in PS, though the original 4000/13um sample seems a bit smoother at that huge magnification.

Sandy

Sandy,

Yes they were scanned RGB and the negs have a slight purple cast to them. That's probably the reason for the pink in the files.

I normally use the channel mixer to even that out and then convert to gray scale in PS.

But when I view zoomed in I see a whole lot of fuzzy pixels in the uprez file and sharp very discreet individual pixels in the raw scan. However, I'm not sure I can print large enough for it to make any difference. I did notice that the up-rezzed had a slightly better local contrast which is certainly something to think about going forward.

I may download Silverfast and re-do the scans to see. I use Silverfast for the v750 and normally use gray scale for B&W negs on that machine. One of the things that I use to do on the v750 was to scan at 6400 and then reduce the size in PS and it would improve resolution. It use to take forever to work with a file that big but it did improve things.

[sanking]

Great, thank you very much!

Well, as long if it is very expensive itself without the shipping then it will be not big deal with shipping then, if i don't have enough arms and legs then i still have my wife's arms/legs, if not enough then my kids are also available

Are you Sandy King of Pyrocat?

Yes, I am the Sandy King of Pyrocat. http://www.pyrocat-hd.com/

Good luck with your search for a good scanner.

Sandy

[Professional]

Yes, I am the Sandy King of Pyrocat. http://www.pyrocat-hd.com/

Good luck with your search for a good scanner.

Sandy

Its ok, i may or may not get a drum scanner, it will not be the end of the world, i will keep using my flatbed scanner anyway.

Great, i am looking for to have that Pyrocat-HD developer, i bought all the raw chemicals but i am not sure if i will end up with same as your formula, or if i have the right correct chemicals to do, as i can buy a powdered package of this developer but i can't be sure if it is same formula of yours.

[sanking]

Sandy,

Yes they were scanned RGB and the negs have a slight purple cast to them. That's probably the reason for the pink in the files.

I normally use the channel mixer to even that out and then convert to gray scale in PS.

But when I view zoomed in I see a whole lot of fuzzy pixels in the uprez file and sharp very discreet individual pixels in the raw scan. However, I'm not sure I can print large enough for it to make any difference. I did notice that the up-rezzed had a slightly better local contrast which is certainly something to think about going forward.

I may download Silverfast and re-do the scans to see. I use Silverfast for the v750 and normally use gray scale for B&W negs on that machine. One of the things that I use to do on the v750 was to scan at 6400 and then reduce the size in PS and it would improve resolution. It use to take forever to work with a file that big but it did improve things.

John,

My remarks about getting the same resolution at 4000/13um and and 2000/13um and up sizing were meant only to apply to the specific circumstances I mentioned of scanning 5X7 B&W negatives. I agree with Armando that we have to be very careful in making any comparisons that involve interpolation. Basically, 2000 ppi of effective resolution is more than enough for me with 5X7 negatives. That allows me to print 20X28" with a file size of 500 dpi, way more than I need.

When scanning medium format negatives I have found the film grain does pretty much limit resolution, as Lenny suggested. With a fine grain film like Acros or Tmax-100 I scan at 4000 ppi/6um and the resulting scan has fine grain and huge detail (assuming the negative was focused and exposed for fine detail). With TMY on the other hand, 4000 ppi/6um simply gives too much grain.

Of course, grain size is related to the CI to which you develop film. For a smoother grain look with high speed films it is probably best to use a very low CI, say about .40-45.

With the Epson V700/V750 I agree that your method of scanning at 6400 ppi and then down sizing to the real effective resolution of that scanner, which is about 2000 ppi, definitely gives a cleaner scan as the noise is averaged out over more pixels.

Sandy

[sanking]

I may download Silverfast and re-do the scans to see. I use Silverfast for the v750 and normally use gray scale for B&W negs on that machine. One of the things that I use to do on the v750 was to scan at 6400 and then reduce the size in PS and it would improve resolution. It use to take forever to work with a file that big but it did improve things.

Are you not using DPL? I assume that with that software you could just lose the Red and Blue channels?

Sandy

[Lenny Eiger]

I have not dealt with them personally but this company has a good reputation. http://www.genesis-equipment.com

They sell refurbished drum scanners, and also high end flatbeds. But this equipment is heavy and shipping to the U. A. E. is going to cost an arm and a leg. Not a problem of course if you have a lot of arms and legs.

I have, I purchased my first 4500 from them. They were not even the least bit competent. I won't bother with the details but they had no idea what they were doing, or what they were looking at. It cost me a lot extra when I had to get a mounting station, good drums, etc.

If I were in your place, I would buy something directly from Aztek, even tho' you would pay more. Then you would know if it was tuned up or not, they would help you make sure it was ok when it arrived. I don't think they keep anything in stock these days but they might...

There are a couple of good places to get a scanner. The first is right here, in the 'for sale' section. People tend to treat everyone here very well, they get embarrassed publicly if they don't. The other good resource is the Scan High end forum, which is an email list at yahoogroups. There are many top pros there and they are always buying and selling stuff. A Howtek 4500 was offered in June for $2400, with everything included. Another possibility is DPUG.org but the Scan High End list is generally the best. There are plenty of offerings on EBay... of course.

The last time I purchased a scanner, I had the seller ship it directly to Aztek for a maintenance checkup. The deal was that if Aztek said it was a broken down piece of junk I would ship it back to him. It represented gamble in the sense that I might be out for the shipping cost but I was willing to go that far with his assurances. In fact, it was fine and the few minor issues were all handled with some tuning. It wasn't that inexpensive, but at least I had the comfort of knowing that when I made a lousy scan it wasn't the scanner - it was me.

There is one other thing I might mention and that is musician's shipping cases. We've all seen those giant blue Anvil cases up on a stage and it turns out they are not that expensive. You can give them the dimensions of the scanner and they will custom-cut the foam for you. I am sure there are others, but you can try anvilcase.com. This type is much better than the normal scanner shipping cases. When it arrives, it makes a nice table for the scanner... If i was shipping all the way to the UAE I'd want one of these...

good luck,

Lenny

[Daniel Stone]

FYI,
Aztek DOES NOT "deal" in used machines anymore. Nor do they sell "refurbished" machines anymore. Used to, not any longer.
Now they just sell brand-new machines. Too much liability and not enough demand(essentially) to do the refurbs.
They WILL, however, service customer-supplied machines(in particular Howtek and Aztek units).

They serviced my DPL8000(which is for sale now, btw) last year, cost me $2500 + tax for a complete tune-up.
I'm going to build a wooden crate w/ 1/2" baltic ply and 1"x3" wood so when a new owner picks it up(I'm not interested in shipping it), it'll be able to ride in the back of a pickup truck if needed.

-Dan