Wwhat Is Post Modernism In Photography?

[Marcus Leonard]

Respectfully, Steve, 'on its own merit' does not exist. It is always the viewer's choice.

[chris jordan]

the fallacious concept that "art is either revolution or plagarism" is the tragic core of the modern and post-modern movements. art students are taught today that to create "real" art, you have to completely redefine your medium with each piece.

In fact, art history teaches that every great work of art, music and literature has been influenced by what came before it. for example, many people consider Bach to be the greatest artist who has yet lived, but by current postmodern standards his pieces would have been scorned as highly derivative of those of Vivaldi and the whole Baroque movement that had been going on for quite some time before Bach. Bach didn't re-invent anything--he worked within the structure of his time and applied his genius in a way that raised the bar slightly on everything that had come before him. So with Shapespeare, who worked within the poetic structure of his time (iambic pentameter). Until postmodernism, that's all any artist aspired to.

That's not to say that great works of art are COPIES of preview works; the concept of copying (plagarism) is vastly different from working within a tradition and accepting--welcoming--influences by other artists. Otherwise, by rejecting all influences and craft as being "plagarism,", one is stuck trying to create a revolution, with no tools that are considered legitimate (because to use them would be copying others), no craft that is accepted as legitmate (for the same reason), and no aesthetic standards (for the same reason). The result of this is that the post-modern artist is forced into a state of primitivism. And hence, by no surprise, the product sucks.

David, your comments were wonderful-- I'll carry a couple of your nuggest around with me to pull out at just the right moment.

and, hey domenico, i'm most definitely NOT sure that my view is the right one; it's just my own opinion, which is always open to change based on well-considered discussion. how about you-- do you have any opinions or well-considered comments, or are you satisifed with random sniping at the opinions of others? your approach to date appears most un-european; i know you can do better.

now i think i'll go have a piece of lemon meringue pie while i don my asbestos jacket...

~cj

[Jim Chinn]

It is no wonder that the rise and influence of pomo in photography parallels that of television and now the internet. The public has less attention span and less time to interpret images. the way you get the attention is to produce shocking, in your face sensationalist images. Nothing is about substance and content anymore. Once you get past the facade of many of these images there is nothing there. They are souless attempts at attracting eyeballs and appealling to the lowest common denominator.

The popularity of these images as evidenced by their predominance in many galleries and due to the fact that most of the buying public s wants that same shock value on their walls to show others and pretend they have some knowledge about photography.

I have seen pomo work at galleries in Chicago and New York, and I don't remember any that I would want to return to ever see again, let alone hang on my wall to see everyday.

Most of the work is so pretentious it screams, "it's all about me!" And just in case you can't figure that out, there is always a essay or piece by the photographer that explains how bad his life sucks or how much of a victim he is etc.

Of course there may be a few good ones out there. But IMHO most of it is simply the work of people who are to lazy to learn another medium, to lazy to understand and appreciate the history and foundations of art, and especially to lazy to learn how to use a camera.

[tim atherton]

Did someone wonder why I was amused at the propect of a POMOphobia discussion on here? well:

> If a photo can't sell itself on its own merits without pages > of "newspeak", then it's crap.

It was because of this kind of totally unconstructive knee-jerk response which comes up every time (funilly enough it nearly always includes the use of the word "crap" - as has been amply demonstrated in this thread).

Probably down to a phobia or fear of something unknown or incomprehensible to the individual. But, to dismiss work as "crap" just because you don't or can't get it - it's just laziness really.

I'm enjoying the constructive discussion, but if we just want to throw the term crap around - hey, lets look at some Adams stuff or maybe Kenna or whoever...! Wow, that's sure easy to do - end of discussion. you can't argue with that statement now, can you.

Okay - just kidding about the latter two.

[chris jordan]

hey Rebeca, what are your thoughts/reactions so far?

[Jonathan Brewer]

"3 : modern artistic or literary philosophy and practice; especially : a self-conscious break with the past and a search for new forms of expression" .....That includes any and everybody who decides to take up photography or the Arts or whatever. Everybody beleives they can be a little different and somehow bring a new wrinkle to the party.

Picasso or whoever the hell it was said that 'everybody steals, it's just that some people disquise it better than others', there is no art that is brand new or totally different, it's all connected.

I admire Shakespeare as a playwright, but nobody talks that much during lovemaking.

All this macaroni about classifications, the only classification that means anything is whether it's good or lousy, regardless of whether it's Classical, Jazz, Pop, Pictorialism, or the abrasion process.

A 'Blank Canvas' and flicking splatters of paint onto a large canvas spread out onto the floor is not Art. One has nothing in it, and the other has absolutely no frame of reference, a lot of people produce stuff, they don't have any more of an idea of what it is than whoever's looking at it, unlike the best abstract Art which always had something you could latch onto.

[marcus schwier]

postmodernism - comes from architecture! an interpretation of old styled buildings in a new way - somtimes with no function. it's over for round 10 years. marcus schwier

[domenicco]

Dear chris, Please tell me how an "european approach " is supposed to be like, my snobbish friend. You tell me that all i do is to snipe to the opinion of others, what i tell you is that i cannot stand gratuitous destructive critique of other artists work if the source shows ignorance and a certain lack of open mindedness. Further on i have only been sniping at you only , Chris, at nobody else..

I get outraged when i see people criticising other people effort to express themselves. Just say that you don't like their work, don't be so pretencious as if you were the torch bearer of the right approach to photography. Remember that photography itself in the times of Daguerre had been seen as an heresy.... You say that what you state is only an opinion and that you are ready to an open debate of some sort ... If it is only your opinion how can you tell Rebecca all that , as if it was carved in stone? I am not interested to change your mind with a debate , because yours is an attitude , not a position where you place yourself in the artworld. You show not only ignorance but an underlying frustration as an artist ..... Grow my friend, grow

[Brian C. Miller]

"Quot capita, tot sensus" (There are as many opinions as there are heads.) --Terentius

Domenico: If a person states an opinion then states their perspective, they're free to do it. Personally, I only get riled when the person stating another opinion doesn't also state an alternative. I like to hear about alternatives, and especially a short, concise statement of philosophy. If you want to really take a look at Chris' own photography, take a look at his website, and then see how what he says here matches with what he prints. As far as I'm concerned, that's the real test.

One thing I have found out about photography: I almost always think to myself, "why oh why did you point your camera that way?" When I view a number of modern photographers, I think to myself, "Wow! What a shrewd marketing genius this person must be!" or else "What a load of crap!"

I think that artwork should invigorate a person. If it invigorates me as much as my home-roasted coffee, so much the better. I don't see that with "postmodern" photography. I don't like the idea that a photograph should leave you feeling violated or drained. I call it as I see it: garbage. I really think that the people who produce that drek know it for what it is, and then they spend their time writing their ad copy to sell it.

[RICHARD ILOMAKI]

Brian:

Or, to quote that great Moral Philosopher, Larry Flint: "Opinions are like assholes- everybody has one". Or- Louis Armstrong on Jazz: "If you have to have it explained, you'll never understand it".

If you want to get enmeshed in sopme real post-modern(even the use of "pomo" is an example of Post Modernist morbidity) fecal matter, try listening to the justification of the Post WW 1 Vienese trauma of 12 tone serial music. Finally after 80 years of Webern, Berg and too many others, music is again an emotional expression to which we can sing dance.

Cheers