whole plate, the ideal format.

[landstrykere]

I luckily found an out of date 25 sheet box of Ilford Delta 100 in whole plate last month, but in my experience, you will pay MORE for Whole Plate than 8x10.

you are right. Fotoimpex in Berlin, has put ILFORD ULF current offerings on their site. Delta 100, FP4 and HP5 available in 6½ x 8½ but excepted Delta 100, it is cheaper to buy 8x10. Not much 208€ (8x10) vs 213€ but cheaper. Delta 100 only is cheaper by size: 259€ in 8x10 and 233€ in 6½ x 8½. But 50 sheets box of Fomapan 100 or 200 is 135€ ...

Before that, I was cutting down Foma 100 or Fuji HR-U Green X-ray film.

by now I am thinking of cutting also Fomapan 100 and 200, the 18x24 sheets. Or cut 6½ x 8 of 8x10 sheets, so ½ shorter whole plate length and keep 6½ width required for film holders, and from the remaining cut 2¼ x 3¼ I could use with Grafmatics I have, on a Horseman MF. Too bad that 3½ is 1 mm shorter than 9cm otherwise 9x12 could be an option, holders for this are still common. Unless it could be possible to play with 0,5 mm tolerance in film holders: 6½" - 0,5 mm, 90mm - 0,5mm ...

[tdicorcia]

I own a few Toyo Sakai Special metal half plate cameras and also bought two of the whole plate extensions that you showed in your earlier post. Because the extensions are so heavy (lots of cast aluminum and steel bars) I disassembled one and am slowly making a whole plate standard for my Toyo-View. I finished the standard, but the bellows I have are no good, and I put the project on hold until I find a suitable material for new bellows. The Toyo whole plate back takes Toyo whole plate film holders. They are more compact and lighter (I think) than the Rittreck and other Japanese whole plate holders I own. I believe only Toyo holders will fit in the Toyo back. The Toyo whole plate back is very compact, light, and well made. Yatsugiri in Japanese translates as eighth cut, or one-eighth the size of an old Japanese full sheet of paper. When whole plate was introduced to Japan from Europe, it was (I suppose) close to the yatsugiri size so that name was applied here. I live in Japan and have done some research into whole plate. There is really very little information online in Japanese, despite the fact that half-plate and whole plate was used in Japan more recently than in other photography markets. The market for the cameras went away before the Internet arrived.

[jnantz]

it wasn't until WW1 that at least here in the states, time was "standardized" otherwise you'd just get
local variations, makes sense that photography was the same way, nothing standardized, most things proprietary
local materials and supplies lots of innovation .

[landstrykere]

I own a few Toyo Sakai Special metal half plate cameras and also bought two of the whole plate extensions that you showed in your earlier post. Because the extensions are so heavy (lots of cast aluminum and steel bars) I disassembled one and am slowly making a whole plate standard for my Toyo-View. ....The Toyo whole plate back takes Toyo whole plate film holders. They are more compact and lighter (I think) than the Rittreck and other Japanese whole plate holders I own. I believe only Toyo holders will fit in the Toyo back. The Toyo whole plate back is very compact, light, and well made.

thank you, very useful. Weight and size being my main concern in this (otherwise I would just use my 8x10) I am thinking about the option to just buy an old japanese wooden 6x8 instead.

I started this thread, because I was making a back bellows extension for this Toyo half-plate, and the way I did it I was thinking a whole-plate back instead, would not use much more space.
I have finished it, it weight 900g, this is ok, but takes more space than the camera.



folded:



if I unscrew the base (the wood part) it will take similar room in a bag than the camera.
An old japanese 6x8 instead will take less space I guess.

I found on Yahoo Japan pictures of the Toyo whole plate holders you mention, as the picture you have joined. They remind me of the half-plate, also on this picture. Ie. slims:




now, as for weight of the whole plate extension, I found also one that is different, seems it may be lighter, the 2nd one:

[landstrykere]

so I won that auction on Yahoo Japan. I put a screenshot, as access to the site requires a VPN in Japan:



one of the reason, I buy Japanese gear from Japanese auction sites is also that often it can be much cheaper than on Ebay. I have bought my two other Toyo Field, film holders, Shanel shutters, recently a Minolta Auto-Spot like that. In the past Bronica bodies and lenses, etc. Shipment is also fast at reasonable rates.

Here two current listings on Ebay from a main Japanese seller there, for the whole plate add-on, the one linked previously in this thread, coming also with four whole plate holders (Rittreck ones if I understand well), and the add-on alone. Prices in NOK,, are ~ 330 USD and 253 USD:



the auction I just won is 32.000 JPY ~ 213 USD ... for this I have yet another Toyo Field half-plate (will be my 3rd, would resell), another half-plate back, the whole-plate add-on, four Toyo whole plate film holders, one Toyo half-plate holder (I have already five).

this version of the camera is not marked in inches 4¾ x 6½ but in cm 16x11:



so, we'll see. Meanwhile I have been using the back bellows extension I made for the Toyo half plate, so I can use up to 450mm lens with the 5x7 back, this extension gives an idea of the size of the camera with the whole plate add-on, compared with my current 8x10, with a piece of cardboard cut according dimensions of whole plate holders found online, so to have an idea:






This will be a significant gain of room in a bag, compared to 8x10.

[landstrykere]

I own a few Toyo Sakai Special metal half plate cameras and also bought two of the whole plate extensions that you showed in your earlier post. Because the extensions are so heavy (lots of cast aluminum and steel bars) I disassembled one and am slowly making a whole plate standard for my Toyo-View .../...I believe only Toyo holders will fit in the Toyo back. The Toyo whole plate back is very compact, light, and well made. .../... There is really very little information online in Japanese, despite the fact that half-plate and whole plate was used in Japan more recently than in other photography markets. The market for the cameras went away before the Internet arrived.

I received Friday the set I bought through Tenso on Yahoo Japan. I have got the camera with the half-plate back, the whole-plate extension with back, four Toyo whole-plate holders, one half-plate holder.
As you mention the whole-plate back alone is a gem, very thin and light:



the whole-plate extension is different than in the pictures I found at auctions in the last couple years, and in the (not dated) japanese manual I have. Older or newer, no idea. With the back on, it weights 2,2kg





with the camera it is then in the 4kg and some bulk:



I will not take it when I travel very light, but camera with half-plate back, four holders, couple repro/barrel lenses and tripod, is ok for plane cabin luggage including small bag under seat all in the ~10kg allowance. I will take in case of checked luggage, probably all gear in cabin.

these Toyo whole-plate film holders are thin, dimensions: 268mm x 194mm x 13mm. They take sheet in dimension 164mm x 216mm. I tried 165mm, doesn't fit. 163x216 is tight.

the half-plate holder comes in a box with a different Sakai emblem. Older or newer?





I ran an image search without success.

Left the half-plate holder boxes I have from before:

[tdicorcia]

That extension back you got looks quite usable. I have a couple of the heavy ones, which are really impractical for bringing anywhere without a crew. The holders I got came in the silver blue colored box. I've not seen the orange and purple type box before. regarding whole plate film dimensions, it is a problem that there are variations. I have a box of Fuji Film Neopan SS, expiration date June 1978 gives its dimensions as 16.3 x 21.3 cm JS (6 1/2 x 8 1/2) In Japan it is also known as yatsugiri (八切). I assume this is the JS standard. I also have a box of Sakurapan (Konica) SSS that has on the box: JS (6 1/2 x 8 1/2) 163 x 213 mm. I still have not opened these boxes or tried to insert film in my Toyo holders. I have slim hope that the Ilford whole plate film I ordered a couple of years ago will fit. My bottleneck is that I need new bellows to have a working camera.

[landstrykere]

regarding whole plate film dimensions, it is a problem that there are variations. I have a box of Fuji Film Neopan SS, expiration date June 1978 gives its dimensions as 16.3 x 21.3 cm JS (6 1/2 x 8 1/2) In Japan it is also known as yatsugiri (八切). I assume this is the JS standard. I also have a box of Sakurapan (Konica) SSS that has on the box: JS (6 1/2 x 8 1/2) 163 x 213 mm. I still have not opened these boxes or tried to insert film in my Toyo holders. I have slim hope that the Ilford whole plate film I ordered a couple of years ago will fit. My bottleneck is that I need new bellows to have a working camera.

my tests on these Toyo holders were done by drawing in software with 2 pixel lines, rectangles in 165x216, 164x216, 163x213, printed to a Canon iX6800 on 100g/m paper, and careful cuts with new blade utility knife. So try to keep tolerance level acceptable. The 165±0,5mm will not insert in the holder, the 164mm will but tight, so it is absolutely 163mm with a little bit of play that is correct. The 216mm / 215,5 length fits but very tight, tricky for extraction, the 213mm has a lot of play i think, the best seems to be a 214,5 / 215 mm

the ULF Ilford sale is still going until 30.06, initially was thinking to buy some of their 6½ x 8½, but If they cut 165mm width it will not fit for sure. Will need to trim a length with a guillotine. FOMA still manufactures 18x24 in Fomapan 100 and 200, a cheap option for home cut with minimal waste.

I did battle a lot with japanese, trying to find expressions around 八切, in order to find holders and cameras. I am thinking of buying an old wood camera with back for plate holders, some king of Nagaoka or similar, they are cheap, to adapt the Toyo 6½ x 8½ back. Will be compact for light travel.

You can have custom bellows made in Japan or cheaper in China easily I believe, for your project.