Lerebours Serial Number - Rice Writing

[Steven Tribe]

Yes, I added it to the register just after it was listed!

I was interested but:
I am trying not to buy outside the EU, as EBay listings involve Pitney Bowes - who refuse to accept the existence of the reduced import VAT rate of around 5% for EU countries for antiques and “collectors items”. I pay 35% effective (25% VAT + fees)- which is Little more than I wanted to pay for this sized landscape achromat. Lerebours was making quite a lot of retro pillbox at the time.

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Yes, I added it to the register just after it was listed!

I was interested but:
I am trying not to buy outside the EU, as EBay listings involve Pitney Bowes - who refuse to accept the existence of the reduced import VAT rate of around 5% for EU countries for antiques and “collectors items”. I pay 35% effective (25% VAT + fees)- which is Little more than I wanted to pay for this sized landscape achromat. Lerebours was making quite a lot of retro pillbox at the time.

The advertisement reads: "Located in: Friesland, Netherlands" ....I tracked the seller and indeed he is living in a small town in Friesland

[mhayashi]

A case study of
Lerebours et Secretan No.2333 petzval.

I haven’t measured the focal length yet, but this lens must be the ref. number 357 with the focal length 37cm in the 1853 catalog.

The ref. number 1165 bis in the 1846 catalog might not indicate the same petzval, but it is noted the chemical focus shift is corrected.

Les objectifs combinés sont surtout avantageux en ce qu'ils opèrent bien plus rapidement que les objectifs simples. Nous garantissons que dans tous ces objectifs le foyer chimique correspond exactement au foyer apparent.

So I suppose this sample was made circa 1846, the very first lot of such chemical focus shift correction which was possible only after Secretan joind with Lerebours in 1845 as described in p217 of the 2nd edition Corrado’s 19th century French lens book.

It is interesting that L&S already corrected chemical focus shift much earlier than the time Voigtlander corrected so in 1858.

A very historical sample with the largest diameter L&S petzval available at the time. By 1855, 5 and 6 pouce diameter petzval showed up.

Total height not including the hood is 25cm, inner barrel outer width is 12cm.

The front and rear lens opening diameter is 105mm.

So this sample f number would be 370 ÷ 105 = f3.5

The whole lens diameters are 108mm.

4 pouce * 27 mm/pouce = 108mm

meaning the this lens was designed as the 4 pouce diameter lens, where pouce means Parisan inch which was used in optics in France at the time, although metric system was officially started since 1840, as the catalog descriptions of 1846 and 1853 are in metric system.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_inch

Both front and rear glass elements have the rice writings 2333 showing the authenticity, together with S probably as in Secretan and arrows “vvv” to indicate the direction of the light path for the correct position on the lens cases.

The outer sleeve is cut later for whs modification.

[Steven Tribe]

More likely to be 1845, rather than 1846.
I attempted to add it to the serial number listing in posting #110 yesterday, but got wiped out at the end by a malfunctioning website!
I do regularly add “new” items without mentioning it here.
I can see that many L & S items that I added in connection their appearance on eBay and elsewhere years ago are still available! Which tells us that not only has demand fallen away but sellers are also loath to (with a few exceptions) adjust pricing to what the market is prepared to accept.

#2333 is the earliest L & S big Petzval we have registered.

[mhayashi]

Good afternoon from Tokyo, Steven.

What makes you say my No.2333 sample was made in 1845 rather than 1846?

Your #110 post is probably too long as it seems to reach the max letters saved a post.
You probably need to split the list in half and so on, or save to an online google spreadsheet like other menbers do.

[Steven Tribe]

The vvv is likely to be a matching symbol for the hand cut threads. The best fitting male and female threads are marked with same symbol. This suggests that your lens was one of a group of lenses ( perhaps similar Petzvals or 4 pouce Landscape meniscus using the same sized achromat) going through the workshop at the same time!
The reason I suggest 1845 is possible is because L & S made about 3,000 lenses from 1845 to 1850. In my opinion, the real start of serial numbers was around #2100. This means that your is about 233 in the production sequence from some date in 1945 - perhaps?
But it could be that L and S got going in December or November 1845 and everything really started in 1846!
Greetings from a late sunset near Copenhagen - plenty of jet trails on their way to your part of the world.
I was on a visit to NHL for 3 weeks at the peak of the Betamax/VHS battle in the late 70’s.
Tomorrow, I pick up my latest L&S item.

[mhayashi]

Good evening front Tokyo, Steven.

I have just checked which date Secretan joined with Lerebours in 1845.

According to the 2nd edition Corrado's 19th century French lens book, the company with the name Lerebours et Secretan was established on 15th Feb., 1845
according to the notes in p259.

So plenty of time for Secretan to discuss, design and make the chemical shift free petzvals in 1845 I guess…?
The chemical focus shift was said removed in 1846 but the more precise interpretation would be by 1846 I suppose.

So what’s up with your new acquisition of L&S??

[Steven Tribe]

I’ll get back to my new purchases in a week or so….. Meanwhile!…
I have located another series of L & S lenses - 13 in all.
A few were auction listings I hadn’t noted But the rest come from this website which lists the L & S museum holdings in the UK.

https://collection.sciencemuseumgrou...0et%20Secretan

Some these (with photos) are part of the “Arthur Frank” collection at the Science Museum (South Kensington, Central London) whilst the larger portion are without images and are part of the Kodak Collection at the Media museum in Bradford (Midlands, UK). Serial numbers are given or visible on photos. There is a single blurred number and an obvious misread of a number as 0468.
Will be adding these numbers later today.
The descriptions given for these lenses is quite appalling and perhaps someone based in the UK could volunteer to give them a helping hand - I doubt they are on display, but more likely tucked away in some far away storage facility.

[pgk]

The descriptions given for these lenses is quite appalling and perhaps someone based in the UK could volunteer to give them a helping hand - I doubt they are on display, but more likely tucked away in some far away storage facility.

This is a not uncommon problem. Not only is there a lack of expertise about many of the items owned by UK museums, many are also in 'deep' storage (sometimes many miles from the actual museum) and getting information about them or having the examined can be difficult. There are some exceptions and many are delighted if you give them information and adjust their records accordingly. So it can be worth contacting them because those that are exceptions can be very helpful. On the whole my experience is that it can be a bit hit and miss .....

[Kristoff]

Both lens groups engraved with the serial number 5073.