Negative damage using the Taco method

[koh303]

If you scratch negatives while tray possessing that an issue with you not with the tray processing method.

Indeed - with tanks that part of problem is less of an issue as the skill required is very minimal.

[Peakbagger]

I just want to be clear that I have nothing against tray processing, I'm pretty sure I can make my small bathroom work for it. I haven't ruled it out. However, I've got a paterson and I've seen people get good results with it for 4x5 and dang it all to heck I want that too! heh.

Additionally, my 7 year old likes to hang out with me when I do it. She sets timers, hands beakers to me, etc. It's kind of fun that way and in the process I'm exposing her to film photography. It's less fun when she can't see what I'm doing. Maybe she'll keep these memories and who knows, perhaps when she's older she'll be the one to bring film back to the masses. Our children will save the universe!

The BTZS tubes sound more appealing the more I think about it. The frugal side of me likes that it doesn't use that much developer. 60 ml vs 800 ml developer is very appealing. Anyways, I have some new ideas for the taco method that I'll implement this weekend. If they don't pan out, then I'll try BTZS or tray. Some good info in this thread. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to it.

[alavergh]

I haven't tried the taco method, but from somebody who has started shooting large format much more during the last year, I've gone through between 200 and 500 sheets. I have probably scratched...uh....less than 5. I am 30 years old, and I'm also a flutist and I have good typing skills. It may be just that I'm good with my fingers. Still, if you can successfully load film into 4x5 holders, you can probably learn to do tray processing just fine. Before I had blacked out the windows in a spare bedroom, I did it in an interior bathroom with a big white black-out sheet and a towel. I set up a card table partially in the tub/shower and almost over top of the toilet. I sat in a metal chair, and stuck my gralab black box timer under the card table. I use an 8x10 tray to pre-soak, 3 5x7 trays for dev/stop/fix, and then I wash in an 8x10 tray as well. I usually stick to 4 negatives at a time because any more, I can't shuffle through them fast enough to keep my agitations to 15 seconds, which is my standard. Plus, When I wash them, 4 fit nicely into an 8x10 tray. I can put my fingers in between the negatives and slosh the water around a bit. 500mL of solution for developer, and then you can actually use less stop and fixer.

OP, if you can get a hold of some 5x7 trays, I would give it a shot with 2 negatives at a time (a single film holder).

Somebody mentioned limiting yourself to black and white if you use trays. Doesn't that mean you're also limiting yourself to 4x5 unless you pony-up for jobo?

If you can give trays a try, there's at least one good video on youtube...except the guy does tend to talk....a lot.

[alavergh]

Additionally, my 7 year old likes to hang out with me when I do it. She sets timers, hands beakers to me, etc. It's kind of fun that way and in the process I'm exposing her to film photography. It's less fun when she can't see what I'm doing. Maybe she'll keep these memories and who knows, perhaps when she's older she'll be the one to bring film back to the masses. Our children will save the universe!

I don't have any children yet, but if I did, and I got that quality time, I'd put up with damaged negatives of paying for a different system/tank. That's cool

[Peakbagger]

hi

i know some people hate FR tanks but once you get the hang
of loading them and an agitation scheme they work well ( i am sure a few people on this website
who use them can tell you more ) ... or a jobo system ... or ... get a few trays and a darkened room and process your film that way.
how dark does the room need to be ?

john

That's a very good question, how dark DOES a room need to be? Can you have a just a little light coming through? I've always thought it was supposed to photon free, but really what are the tolerances?

[jnantz]

That's a very good question, how dark DOES a room need to be? Can you have a just a little light coming through? I've always thought it was supposed to photon free, but really what are the tolerances?

you got me, i have no idea !

at the very least, i would use a very dark room and prepare for the worst .
and do things "by the book" ...
the internet is full of people that dispense advice and have
very little or no experience in the advice they are dispensing ..
( they are just parrots ) this is good, and this is bad at the same time.
its good because sometimes the advice is spot-on and you can thank
then for parroting the right advice, it is bad because often times
the advisors have no idea what they are talking about is nonsense ..
its unfortunate but true ...
at least in the "old days" there was an editor and fact checker to assure
what was said was fit to print ... nowadays anything seems to be fit to post ..

[jp]

Additionally, my 7 year old likes to hang out with me when I do it. She sets timers, hands beakers to me, etc. It's kind of fun that way and in the process I'm exposing her to film photography. It's less fun when she can't see what I'm doing. Maybe she'll keep these memories and who knows, perhaps when she's older she'll be the one to bring film back to the masses. Our children will save the universe!

My girls love playing in the colored pre-soak water while I develop film. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUkhhHR6Xfk
I usually use a combiplan for 4x5, but have a mod54 that works fine too. Tray for larger sizes.

[Nigel Smith]

This thread was started because the OP had damage from the taco method.

Yep, but it doesn't seem like the OP actually checked their tank was suitable but was led by posts that indicated it would be. Seems not all 2 spool Paterson tanks were made equal.

I know when I first tried tacos (after deciding trays weren't for me) I tested a sheet in the tank to see what was going to happen (how the rubber bands sat, etc) and to measure how much liquid I was going to need. I have noticed the lines of anti-haelation backing that don't get disolved (happens on some films) as mentioned above so move the rubber bands half way through the fixer (seems to work better than during the wash). While my tacos are developing/fixing (15mins or so) I do lots of little jobs around the darkroom.

Guess we should agree, that people use many methods successfully.

[Doremus Scudder]

That's a very good question, how dark DOES a room need to be? Can you have a just a little light coming through? I've always thought it was supposed to photon free, but really what are the tolerances?

I'm speaking from experience here.

For developing slower films in trays, your darkroom needs to be really dark. No photons would be ideal and it's not all that hard to achieve. Even GraLab luminous dials and dim LED readouts on timers can fog film if too close to the film developing tray. I keep things at a distance and baffle the dials/readouts so I can see them but the film can't

A very little light from a stray crack, e.g., under the door, around a frame in a blacked-out window, etc., can be okay if the film can't "see" it and it gets absorbed by walls, etc. before reflecting onto the film in the tray. That said, I've fogged film before with just the tiniest bit of light seeping in around a loose piece of lightproof tape on a window. Fogging by stray light is a time/intensity thing just like in-camera exposure. What you can get by with for 5 minutes may be way too much for a 15-minute developing time. Also, a slight bit of overall fog can go unnoticed, but will affect your shadow separation and contrast when getting around to printing (just like any overall fog).

Try to get your darkroom as dark as possible. To check things, put a mirror in the tray you're going to develop in, turn out the darkroom lights and let your eyes adjust (15+ minutes is best, but wait at least 10) and then examine the darkroom for light leaks and the mirror in the tray from all angles for reflections. Fix what you can and adjust positions/baffling to keep the tray as much in the dark as possible and then do a test run or two.

... Guess we should agree, that people use many methods successfully.

Nigel,

Of course! I never intended to bad-mouth any method of developing and I don't think I have. I just wanted to point out that tray developing is time-tested and works just fine for many, me included. It is a viable option and shouldn't be ruled out by a vocal few who never developed or don't have the skill to tray develop without scratching. Any method that gets you undamaged, evenly-developed negatives in the amount and time you need is great. I just hate to see beginners scared away from tray developing by those who seem to have an agenda and want to remove it from the list of possibilities. It's a low-tech and inexpensive way to try out black-and-white LF and works fine for many advanced and master photographers.

Personally, I like being skillful and like developing different skill sets. For those who prefer developing methods that "require no skill" there are lots of possibilities.

Best,

Doremus

[walbergb]

My 2 cents worth: a homemade slosher. Since that post I've made a slight modification because the glue doesn't hold forever. I cut the "c" pieces a little thicker, drilled holes in the ends and through the tray for pins (brad nail cutoffs), and used epoxy to glue the pieces in place. You still have to work in the dark, but very little space is required.