Black and White book printing, what is the best quality option?

[Larry Kellogg]

Volcano Arts may be a better deal:

http://www.volcanoarts.com

[Tin Can]

Pure Wabi-sabi, I love it.

"Characteristics of the wabi-sabi aesthetic include asymmetry, asperity (roughness or irregularity), simplicity, economy, austerity, modesty, intimacy, and appreciation of the ingenuous integrity of natural objects and processes."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi

I have heard those words, but never a definition. I often say I am Zen Buddhist and never explain. There is no explanation.

As time passes, high tech (wet prints) becomes solo craft, rarely recognized.

[Jim Noel]

Well, Richard, I think it's a problem of cost. I don't believe any custom book binder is going to talk to me about printing a few books, even at $250 per book. Print on demand came about as a result of the ability to scale up volumes on the internet.

I don't think there is any good way of binding prints into a book. Of course, loose portfolios are an option, but I really do want a book.

I found this article:

http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2009/05/...y-blurb-books/

which bashes Blurb quite a bit and offers a few other options such as Paper Chase and White House. Still, I would like to hear about how people have had high quality black and white books produced, so many of the companies seem geared to color work, I guess because of the wedding trade.

I disagree. I have found that this approach is far cheaper than blurb or any of the other on line printers.

[adelorenzo]

with your book do you have trouble with the cover being not too rigid ?
i've used plexiglass and backboard for covers, never something like vinyl fabric ..
(maybe it isn't as not-rigid as it looks ?)

This type of book usually has a soft cover. If you wanted a hard cover you'd have to hinge it somehow. With a fabric cover it's fairly floppy, so I bind in some cardstock for the first and last pages to give it a little more rigidity.

You don't need the screw punch, although it is really nice. I don't have one. I clamp everything together with binder clamps and then use my drill or a hammer and small nail to make the holes.

[invisibleflash]

I'm scanning prints, and the quality of the scans from my finished prints using the Epson 10000XL is stunning, but I'm not going to print on an inkjet printer. I don't like the results at all.

I guess the answer is that we're stuck with CMYK printers for printing black and white, even though the output is far from ideal. Kind of a bummer.

In the old days (1970's) We made spiral books by dry mounting wet prints back to back. Air dried F surface, Worked nice but I could never produce anything in worthwhile quantities.

[invisibleflash]

I'm scanning prints, and the quality of the scans from my finished prints using the Epson 10000XL is stunning, but I'm not going to print on an inkjet printer. I don't like the results at all.

I guess the answer is that we're stuck with CMYK printers for printing black and white, even though the output is far from ideal. Kind of a bummer.

Then your not a good printer. Inkjets produce as good as or best the finest wet prints.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F..._Teoli_Jr..jpg

The control you have with digital can never been duplicated with wet prints.

nsfw

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F..._Teoli_Jr..JPG

With color they equal or out do dye transfer for IQ. There is no comparison to a a DT to an inkjet for archival fade resistance.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...oli_Jr_LLR.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...oli_Jr_LLR.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...eoli_Jr_mr.jpg

[jnantz]

thanks adelorenzo
i see what you mean ...

i agree making a hinge cover is more effort and is sort of a pain.
it requires book cloth end end papers paste ... ( i sometimes make my own end papers )
and knowing how to do something
that i can only describe as a "hospital corner"
( bed making term )
but once you make one it is a piece of cake.

since i do board covers, i don't use a japanese screw punch but a drill.
i stack everything together and make pencil marks
where i am going to drill ... i put the "stuff" ontop of
a stack of old phonebooks ...
then the most important things of all

...i put my knee ontop to keep everything together ..

i take a deep breath and visualize me taking a hand held long exposure when i drill my 5 holes. it works every time

i can't remember the drill bit i use, i know which one it is because it still has paper in the turns ( and that's all i use it for ) ..
its usually a biggish hole because i don't do a single stitch but usually
do the whole thing 3 times, so i have 3 strands instead of 1 on the cover ..
it makes it a little more "decorative" even for a low tech simple japanese bound book.

[jnantz]

In the old days (1970's) We made spiral books by dry mounting wet prints back to back. Air dried F surface, Worked nice but I could never produce anything in worthwhile quantities.

huh back to back dry mounted prints ?!
what a great idea ... that way every page has an image.
when i made my closed spine books it was a ton of fun
planning the book before i printed i can only imagine even more fun
with 2x the images that could be printed on the wrong page
i made one with a handful of signatures ( packets of pages ) that were just single sided
i can appreciate how much work and planning to make a book with double sided pages like that

[Larry Kellogg]

Then your not a good printer. Inkjets produce as good as or best the finest wet prints.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F..._Teoli_Jr..jpg

The control you have with digital can never been duplicated with wet prints.

nsfw

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F..._Teoli_Jr..JPG

With color they equal or out do dye transfer for IQ. There is no comparison to a a DT to an inkjet for archival fade resistance.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...oli_Jr_LLR.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...oli_Jr_LLR.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...eoli_Jr_mr.jpg

The two processes are physically different, yield different results, and look different. Inkjet printers spray ink on paper, silver gelatin prints are made up of silver halides suspended in a gelatin, something which gives the silver print a feeling of depth, something lacking in an inkjet print. Inkjet prints look flat and dead to me, no matter which model of Epson printer does the work.

Showing a scan of that guy's crappy darkroom print against his over-processed Photoshop print does not prove anything.

It's fine, you can insult me by calling me a bad printer, it's "you're not a good printer", not "your not a good printer", by the way. It's not the person printing, it's the printer, the inkjet printer. I intern with a professional black and white darkroom printer, and get to see a lot of silver gelatin prints next to inkjet prints. The inkjet prints always disappoint me, they just don't stand up to professionally printed silver gelatin prints.

I think the theory that digital prints have surpassed silver prints is promulgated by people who have given up their darkrooms or won't go to the trouble of making wet prints, and will do anything to rationalize their choice to print with inkjet printers. Either that, or they're paid by Epson to sell ink.

By the way, the old color processes produce better color prints than inkjet, sorry to have to tell you. I've printed on a Kreonite, and the inkjet output does not come close.

[Larry Kellogg]

Amazon has many, but only one is actually Japanese. I want the $125 one with 9 sizes. It sounds pretty good. They have the thread, needles and heavy board for covers also. Also a book I want for $12.

Of course a traditional Japanese technique would trump a 3rd world digital press.

I found that Japanese push drill for $64.50, with 9 bits.

http://apps.webcreate.com/ecom/catal...roductID=18830

Talas. They're in Brooklyn, I'll be making a trip out there.