Wanderlust 4x5 P&S

[zuiko90]

We have a fantastic optical designer who designed some incredible plastic lenses for us, but nothing LF yet. (All speculative projects)

The sticking point with LF is the shutter. All new production shutters are simply too expensive. So we would need to design a brand new shutter, which would probably entail electronics. It's within the realm of possibility, but it would be expensive to set up production. It's an open question whether or not we could deliver the lens and shutter for much less than $150, which is about what 90s cost.

Ben;

What I was thinking about was a 90mm, single element plastic lens (which already exists in the Holga 6X12 panoramic). Mounted in a simple, one speed, 1/100 sec. plus 'B' shutter (which already exists in a $30 Holga). The 90mm f8 lens on the Holga 6X12 Panoramic even has focusing which would be unnecessary on the Travelwide 90.

Sort of a "Holga" type version 4X5.

Perhaps the people who make the Holga cameras could put together a lens/shutter, mountable on the 90. Of course, with an initial run of perhaps 1000 to 2000 cameras it might not be enough potential sales as not all the backers would be interested in a lens like this at any price.

Just thinking out loud.

Or.....how about a simple 2 element plastic VF for a 90mm AOV on 4X5? Bet they would sell 500 to 800 of those.

[rustyair]

Ben , I don't know if someone already asked you this before. Is it possible to use grafmatic holders?

[Ben Syverson]

Sort of a "Holga" type version 4X5.

Yeah, I get that... I think Justin and I really want to make something that's a step up from the Holga... They have that so well covered that we don't need to do something that's 4x5 but looks like 120. Based on what we've seen from our lens designer, you can actually do a lot with two plastic elements. The Holga lens must be intentionally designed to look bad. Plastic optics have come a long way, and are now used extensively in mobile devices, telecommunications, etc. It's not any more expensive to make a GOOD plastic lens than an intentionally bad one, so we would certainly err on the side of quality.

The shutter is more of a problem. We could make a simple one-speed shutter, but as soon as you have a good lens, you want more than one shutter speed. So we're caught in this catch-22.

I also think there's a misperception that plastic lenses are cheaper than glass... It's not really true. The advantage of plastic is not cost—it's that you can have as many aspheres as you want, which can reduce the number of elements in the system. Fewer elements means less flare and a simpler system which is easier to assemble. However, plastic has its own tradeoffs, which include higher dispersion (chromatic aberration) and the tendency for the optical index to change with temperature (which means the lens is different in winter vs summer).

So at a certain point, you have to wonder: should we make a two element aspherical plastic version of the lens, or a four element spherical version? They might cost the same and offer similar optical performance. There are a lot of issues to consider.

@rustyair: You can definitely use a Grafmatic, but you'll need to temporarily remove the spring back, and attach the Grafmatic with rubber bands or ball bungees. Should be a good combo!

[AuditorOne]

I will most certainly be using my Grafmatics. Shoot six sheets in the camera and then develop all six in my Jobo 2509. I think that is just about as "point and shoot" as you will ever get with a 4x5 large format camera. My Crown is certainly close but nowhere near as light and easy to handle as the Wanderlust promises to be.

[zuiko90]

[QUOTE=Ben Syverson;1016805]Yeah, I get that... I think Justin and I really want to make something that's a step up from the Holga... They have that so well covered that we don't need to do something that's 4x5 but looks like 120. Based on what we've seen from our lens designer, you can actually do a lot with two plastic elements. The Holga lens must be intentionally designed to look bad. Plastic optics have come a long way, and are now used extensively in mobile devices, telecommunications, etc. It's not any more expensive to make a GOOD plastic lens than an intentionally bad one, so we would certainly err on the side of quality.

Yeah, I'm aware that plastic lenses have advanced in performance. The Vivitar Slim and Wide has a two element 22mm lens that is quite good, considering the $20 price for the current iteration of it sold through Freestyle. That camera still uses a curved film plane though. In fact, I would be willing to guess that the same 22mm lens is used in the 'Golden Half' half frame camera.

Shutter....shutter....hmmm shutter.

Lets see now, well, how about a copy of the 2 blade, 4 speed + 'B' Copal X as found in the original Olympus Pen of 1959. they ran 1/25-1/50-1/100-1/200 + B. I've had one apart. No slow speed escapement (no speed slower than 1/25), not too many parts, simple design, very reliable. I wouldn't mess with designing a brand new shutter. Just copy a known good design. They are so old now, do you think Copal would object?

[Michael Roberts]

Wise words, and ones we are certainly keeping in mind! We do not want to over-promise, and we want to leave miles of wiggle room so that each component can be done very well. Now that we're in the territory of stretch goals, we just want to add simple things that complete the camera, or refine existing details.

Ben:
I get this, and I think you are right. OTOH, I have not yet signed on--the big limitation for me is the 90mm lens as the longest option. Since the spring back unscrews, it makes sense to me to offer a range of spacers that can be screwed into the back of the camera (into the spring back holes) and then the spring back screwed into the spacer. I would love to see a spacer option for the 127 (5") ektar, 135mm (5 1/4") optar or schneider-kreuznach [I agree with Rick that this camera is perfect for press lenses that are small, light, and don't provide enough coverage for 4x5s with extensive movements] and for any one of several 150mm (6") lenses, i.e., 1 and 1/2"; 1 and 3/4"; and 2 and 1/2" spacers. Of course, I can fabricate spacers out of wood, but it would be nice to have the spacer made of the same material as the camera body and molded to fit tight.

Another advantage of the press lenses is they are fast--typically f4.5, so ideal for hand-held photography like the Travelwide.

In any event, big congratulations on achieving your funding goal. I applaud your creativity and accomplishment with this project.
Michael

[MonkeyBrain]

I think Justin and I really want to make something that's a step up from the Holga...

...and I suspect this is precisely why your Kickstarter campaign has provoked so much interest and support: there was obviously a gap in the market for a cheap, lightweight, portable 4x5 camera that's capable of producing high quality images that will sit happily alongside work produced on more expensive cameras, as opposed to some crappy toy camera that forces the user to make a feature of the technology's very serious limitations in quality.

[MonkeyBrain]

the big limitation for me is the 90mm lens as the longest option.

Yep, same here. I have signed on, but the fixation with wide-angle lenses is something of a turn-off for me. I'll probably offend quite a few people by saying this, and obviously wide angle lenses have their legitimate uses, but I principally see them as something that novice photographers use to make otherwise boring photographs appear more interesting.

But I really wish that a longer focal length option had been included in the original poll. I suspect that 90mm would have proved the most popular anyway, as people just love those wide angles, and I fully realize that you guys would have to go with the most popular option anyway in order to guarantee enough backers, but it would have been interesting to see how much demand there is for, say, a 150mm (which would be my ideal choice of lens for this).

Anyway, don't want to sound ungrateful, as I'm genuinely very excited about this, but yes, some kind of adapter for longer focal lengths as Michael suggests would be great.

[Ken Ford]

... I would love to see a spacer option for the 127 (5") ektar, 135mm (5 1/4") optar or schneider-kreuznach [I agree with Rick that this camera is perfect for press lenses that are small, light, and don't provide enough coverage for 4x5s with extensive movements]...

Big plus one for this idea, who doesn't have an old 127 Ektar or 135 Optar lying around collecting dust?

[dave_whatever]

To those asking for a version to shoot longer lenses wide open at f/4.5, could you really guess focus that with any degree of accuracy? Wide angles are quite forgiving in that respect, hence why us "novices" think these compact wide angle cameras are a suitable design for a fixed body guess focus camera.