BTZS vs JOBO

[macandal]

CPP2s are $1200-1500 for a good condition unit, possibly more if it's late model. That's without the drums.

Yikes! Why so expensive? What do they do that make this units so expensive?

[Jeff Bannow]

Yikes! Why so expensive? What do they do that make this units so expensive?

And that's the used price. New they are $3000. Plus $300-400 each for the tanks.

If I was in your position I would consider stainless tank and hangers. Cheap, durable and can process stand or semi-stand if you choose. You should be able I get a nice setup for $100-200 complete, ready to process.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

I use a 3006 for 4x5 and 5x7 on a adapted Unicolor (?) motor base. It requires a bit more work than with the CPP, but is just fine. It also takes much less space. The key to consistency is that you need to reverse the spin occasionally. The Unicolor base reverses too frequently (I think), so I opened it up and removed the reversal mechanism, which is easy to do. I now reverse by hand (flipping the tank in the other direction) every minute. You also need to pour your chemicals in with a siphon and hose, but this is easy enough.

I also use BTZS tubes for 8x10, which I like, but are certainly more work than the JOBO tanks. On the other hand, I can do a batch of N+1 and N-1 starting the same time, which you can't do with the JOBO.

[macandal]

If I was in your position I would consider stainless tank and hangers.

You read my mind my friend.

[Roger Thoms]

It depends a lot on your budget and whether you have a darkroom or not. I like the BTZS tube but don't have a darkroom right now so I don't use them. The nice thing with the Jobo is you can load your film in a changing tent or dark closet, and then everything is done with the lights on. You can also set up the Jobo on the counter next to the sink, like in the kitchen for instance. With the BTZS tube you need complete darkness until you get the development started then you can turn on the lights and it is also very nice to have a darkroom sink to work in.

The View Camera Store has some good videos on YouTube show how to use the BTZS tubes. If you haven't seen them just do a search for BTZS, they are easy to find. Definitely worth watching if you are trying to make up you mind.

Roger

[Eric Biggerstaff]

I have used both and they are excellent products. The BTZS tubes are a very good, fairly low cost way of getting consistent and even results. They use very little chemicals and are nice for when you have only a few sheets to develop, heck I use them for just one! The kit is the way to go and is an invetment that will last many many years with no mechanical issues. I also use a Jobo 3010 Expert Drum for both 4X5 and 5X7 film and it too is excellent. I use it on a Beseler motor base and don't reverse the drum and have no issues with even development. It is a higher initial investment than the BTZS tubes but it will also last a lifetime if used properly and taken care of. If I were just starting out, I would likely jsut get the BTZS kit and be done with it. However, I am a firm believer that everyone should know how to tray develop a stack of film, it is a talent that can come in handy when other systems fail (and it is easy with practice)!

Good luck, just remember that it doesn't really matter what method you use as long as you practice and test your materials, this will help you get the best possible results.

[Jeff Bannow]

Good luck, just remember that it doesn't really matter what method you use as long as you practice and test your materials, this will help you get the best possible results.

Amen!

[Vaughn]

If you want to use the Expert drums, you need a CPA-2 or CPP-2, preferably with late serial number (most robust version of the motor)...

Not required - I use a Beseler motor base with good results.

SS hangers and tanks is also a good way to go -- careful agitation method is required.

[Brian Ellis]

I used BTZS tubes (4x5 and 8x10) for years. I've used a Jobo system for two weeks in a darkroom workshop. The only reasons I know of to use a Jobo system is if you have a large quantity of film to develop. The Jobo drums I used accepted 10 sheets of 4x5 film, 6 sheets at a time is the maximum with the BTZS tubes if you use them in the water jacket tray that comes with them. The other reason is if you don't want to agitate/roll by hand and prefer to let a machine do it for you.

There perhaps are others but those are the two that I know of. The BTZS tubes have several advantages - they're inexpensive relative to a Jobo system (about $150 from The View Camera Store last time I looked), they take up little space, there's no moving parts so they don't wear out or break, they use very little chemistry (1-2 ounces of developer per 4x5 tube), and you can process different negatives for different times in the same run.

I'm not sure what Oren has in mind when he talks about the Jobo system having "far fewer individual pieces that need to be juggled and actions that need to be completed for a processing run. Chasing all those bobbing tubes around and unscrewing and screwing all those caps gets old after a while." You have one set of caps for each tube, you put the developer in the caps, put the film in the tubes, screw the tubes onto the caps, put the tubes in the water jacket/tray that comes with the tubes (if you buy them rather than making your own), spin them until development is completed, unscrew the caps, move the tubes to the stop bath, etc. One set of caps, the caps go on once and are taken off once, that's it. I don't remember everything I did with the Jobo system but I don't remember it being noticeably simpler than that. Since the tubes were in a tray I never felt that I was chasing anything around.

Some people use two sets of caps, one to cap the tubes after the film is in the tubes and a second to hold the developer, then they unscrew the first set and screw the tubes onto the second set. Perhaps that's what Oren is thinking of. But it isn't necessary to do that, at least if the room you're working in is dark (not necessarily a dedicated "darkroom"). You can just fill one set of caps with developer, put the film in the tubes, then screw the tubes onto the caps and turn on the lights. No need for a second set of caps unless perhaps you were using a changing tent. In that case it wouldn't be a good idea to put developer in the caps and the caps in the tent because of the risk of knocking them over.

In terms of loading film I don't know of any difference between the two systems. With the Jobo you load the film into the drums in darkness, then turn the lights on, with the BTZS tubes you do the same. Both systems require darkness to load the film, neither requires darkness once the film is in the drum/tubes.

I liked the Jobo system I used, it was a fine system. I just didn't like spending $1,500 or so when I could get the same results by spending a lot less. Not everyone would feel that way and that's fine for them.

[Pawlowski6132]

Don't forget the Unicolor system.