Newbie question (how to use the 4x5 camera without accidentally moving it)

[aruns]

Hello,
I am a LF newbie. I have been a forum lurker for a few months, and been reading up on LF for a while now.
I have a Shen Hao HZX 4x5 iia, a Caltar 150mm IIn 5.6, and a Manfrotto 055 XPROB with 486 RC (older version) head. I use 4x5 film holders by sliding them under the GG. I have been trying to use the camera and learn, I have a couple questions and appreciate your responses:

1. Front standard firmness / secure locking:
a. When I use the front right and left (low) knobs to secure the focus point, the standard moves as I tighten the left knob and the image is out of focus. Is there a specific way to focus so as to avoid the extraneous movements and resulting lack of focus.
b. After focusing by adjusting the front standard, I secure it in its place. However, even a soft tap on the standard feels like the standard shakes a lot. How can I avoid it.

2. Overall camera stability:
a. After meticulously focusing on an image, are there any tricks to insert a 4x5 film holder under the ground glass without disturbing the camera from it's position.
b. Are there any tricks or methods to ensure the camera stays well focused, while and after inserting the 4x5 film holder.

Thanks,
Arun.

[Doremus Scudder]

Hello,
I am a LF newbie. I have been a forum lurker for a few months, and been reading up on LF for a while now.
I have a Shen Hao HZX 4x5 iia, a Caltar 150mm IIn 5.6, and a Manfrotto 055 XPROB with 486 RC (older version) head. I use 4x5 film holders by sliding them under the GG. I have been trying to use the camera and learn, I have a couple questions and appreciate your responses:

1. Front standard firmness / secure locking:
a. When I use the front right and left (low) knobs to secure the focus point, the standard moves as I tighten the left knob and the image is out of focus. Is there a specific way to focus so as to avoid the extraneous movements and resulting lack of focus.
b. After focusing by adjusting the front standard, I secure it in its place. However, even a soft tap on the standard feels like the standard shakes a lot. How can I avoid it.

2. Overall camera stability:
a. After meticulously focusing on an image, are there any tricks to insert a 4x5 film holder under the ground glass without disturbing the camera from it's position.
b. Are there any tricks or methods to ensure the camera stays well focused, while and after inserting the 4x5 film holder.

Thanks,
Arun.

Hello Arun and welcome to large-format photography.

I don't own a Shen Hao, but I have several other wooden folding field cameras. I'll tell you how I deal with the problems you mention with them.

As for locking focus, I simply don't. I have screwed the lock-focus know on my cameras back out against the lock nut and that's where they stay. I focus, and then don't touch anything. The focusing is tight enough to keep the standards in place without locking. If your Shen Hao really needs the lock screwed down tight, I would recommend holding the focus knob in place with your right hand while carefully tightening the locking know with your left. You may find, however, that like me you can do without locking focus except possibly for shots with the camera pointed straight up or down.

As for the standard moving when you tap it; all I can say is "Don't do that!" Seriously, as long as your focus does not change from front-to-back, the standard will return to the same place and your focus will stay the same. Wood is flexible, but sturdy and will return to position after you deflect it. That said, there is often a little slop in older cameras that can cause some problems. This slop is usually in at the connecting points/focusing rail If your camera is used and there is a bit of unwanted space in any of these places, you can often use shims and washers to tighten things up. If you have basic woodworking and mechanical skills and are not put off by the small size of much of what you are working with, you can do it yourself. If you are uncomfortable with this, try finding someone who is to help. A machinist or cabinetmaker among your friends is always helpful

You may be being a little paranoid about moving things. As long as your negatives are sharp, I wouldn't worry. To give you some peace of mind, shoot a couple of negatives at fairly close objects with your lens wide open. Focus on something very distinctive, and leave the rest of the shot out of focus. Shoot and develop and see if your intended area is in focus or not.

As for the back deflecting when inserting a filmholder, see above about wood deflecting and returning to position. However, to minimize to stress try this: When inserting the filmholder, first pull the inserting end the back open with your hand (this results in the ground-glass portion of the back being at an angle to the rest of the back). Insert the filmholder partway into the opening. It's best if it goes in just a bit more than halfway. Now you can release the back and use your free hand to support the opposite side of the camera back while gently pushing the holder in place. Often, a little outward pressure (i.e., against the ground-glass side) helps.The springs on many camera backs are quite stiff, and the above technique seems to work best for me.

Best and good luck,

Doremus

[Frank Petronio]

I wish more people realized how flimsy these toy cameras are. Get a professional camera made from metal... They weigh more but are robust and reliable.

[Brian Ellis]

1(a) Do as Doremus suggests and hold the focusing knob in place while you lock with the other knob. I'm not sure about his other suggestion of not locking focus at all - you can't check focus after inserting the film holder so I don't know how he focuses and then doesn't touch anything but I'm probably missing something. In any event, it's easy enough just to hold the focusing knob in place. Also, I'm not sure what you're photographing but unless it's a situation where you have almost no depth of field (e.g. a close-up portrait in low light with a long lens and wide aperture where you want the eyes in perfect focus or the label on a bottle in product photography) the small movement of the kind you describe shouldn't matter, depth of field would normally make up for that kind of small movement. If the movement isn't small, and is really messing up your photographs, then I'd think there's something wrong with the camera.

1(b) Don't tap it.

2(a) and (b) (these seem to be the same question) - Slight movement when inserting the film holder shouldn't matter, normally the camera will return to its original position if its properly secured on the tripod. But if it bothers you just insert the holder a short way under the ground glass frame to get it started, then grasp something on the camera with one hand to hold it steady and push the holder the rest of the way in with your other hand.

I've used metal cameras (Linhof Technikas) and wood cameras (Ebony, Deardorff, Chamonix, Shen Hao, Tachihara, et al). Metal will generally give you a sense or feeling of more "precision" or "firmness" or whatever exactly the term is. But I never found any practical difference in terms of making "sharp" photographs between wood and metal. If Carlton Watkins could make sharp photographs with his 16x20 wood camera and holders you should be able to do it too with your 4x5. : - )

[BrianShaw]

I wish more people realized how flimsy these toy cameras are. Get a professional camera made from metal... They weigh more but are robust and reliable.

I've never touched a Shen Hao... but that was pretty much what I was thinking after reading the post.

[BrianShaw]

As for locking focus, I simply don't. I have screwed the lock-focus know on my cameras back out against the lock nut and that's where they stay. I focus, and then don't touch anything. The focusing is tight enough to keep the standards in place without locking. If your Shen Hao really needs the lock screwed down tight, I would recommend holding the focus knob in place with your right hand while carefully tightening the locking know with your left. You may find, however, that like me you can do without locking focus except possibly for shots with the camera pointed straight up or down.

I do the opposite on both my monorail and speed graphics: I lightly lock the focus every time. Not that it really needs it but it has become habitual and makes me feel better. The trick, if you want to call it that, is to LIGHTLY lock... and hold the focus knob while locing, as mentioned previously. Screwing any focus lock down tight has been problematic for me in the past.

[E. von Hoegh]

I wish more people realized how flimsy these toy cameras are. Get a professional camera made from metal... They weigh more but are robust and reliable.

Or, get a Deardorff.

[Mark Barendt]

I wish more people realized how flimsy these toy cameras are. Get a professional camera made from metal... They weigh more but are robust and reliable.

I have to agree.

I started with a monorail (simply by dumb good luck) and put off a folder because of the shakiness I saw others fight with, with wooden cameras.

Seeing others work folding metal cameras, Rittreck & Calumet, gave me hope.

Ended up with a Toyo 45A which is a true joy to use.

[Corran]

With all due respect, I don't think the OP asked "what camera should I get to replace my wobbly wooden one."

Does every thread related to a wooden or non-metal camera have to have a pile of posts denigrating the choice of gear? It's getting a little tired.

To the OP - if it's like other cameras I have used, hold the right knob while you tighten the left knob and you should be good. Regarding rigidity, I can only suggest double-checking all of your various tightening points as well as your tripod, head, and plate. I was having an issue with a camera rocking before and it was because the plate I was using for the tripod head was backwards, which I didn't think mattered, but it did and caused the whole camera to rock back and forth with only a little effort. Of course, this would've been a problem with a metal monorail just as well.

[BrianShaw]

With all due respect, I don't think the OP asked "what camera should I get to replace my wobbly wooden one."

Does every thread related to a wooden or non-metal camera have to have a pile of posts denigrating the choice of gear? It's getting a little tired.

Ya, I hear ya. I get the same kind of disrespect on the Mercedes forum when I ask why my C230 won't beat a M5 in a drag race.