Durst 138S vs. Epson V750 flatbed scanner

[sashandaisy]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post on the LF forum. I have been reading this site for a couple of years as I was deciding how, when and with what to get in to large format photopraphy. I really appreciated all of your constructive comments on questions that I had myself but other people had already asked.

For the last year and a half I have been using a marvelous KB Canham 5x7 (field) for B&W work. I use a Jobo 3006 drum for developing on an old motor base. Eventually I would like to get a CPP2.
I have been contact printing, but I am not getting the results I wanted (mainly because of exposure problems as I am slowly learning the Zone system). I am set up to take a class with John Sexton (The Fine B&W print) and I am afraid that I will be bitten by the enlargment bug.

Here is the question for the collective wisdom: I have the opportunity to get a Durst 138S at a reasonable price. For just a little bit less, I could get an Epson 750 and scan my film. What is it that I want in the end? An excellent print, of course. For those of you, with experience in both mediums, what would you advise a novice like me?

Thank you

Eliot

[Steve Sherman]

I don't have a bunch of experience with digital but can offer some expertise when it comes to analog and the wet process.

I have a good sized wet darkroom equipped with a Beseler 5x7 cold light enlarger and a Durst 138s with an Ilford 500 head. Both capable enlarging sources and useable for what I intend them to do. That said, have owned the Beseler for 25 years and can tell you that one has to constantly check lens and negative stage alignment. Not so with the Durst, the Durst is a rugged quality machine which performs consistently as any piece of equipment I own.

As an aside, I purchased my Durst from a high end University here in the Northeast, Y*** University (liquidating the analog process) and have a bill of lading for over $11,000.00, price to me 6 years ago $1000.00. Most likely you can find them much less expensive than that now, you won't regret the wet process.

Cheers!

[photobymike]

Yea i agree with steve... i would love to go back to making my prints in the darkroom again.... But its the cost factor for me... the scanner is cheaper ... would be nice to go back tho. I have a v750 scanner that i love to work with. It is almost like an enlarger in that it takes the negative and makes an image. I just got my new Epson r3000 today and tested ... its a really good printer.... color and B&W comes out great. There is not much of an environmental impact in this hybrid type of photography (for those who might be concerned). I live in a house that has a small septic tank. I learned long ago that can be problematic with the amount of water that flows thru a darkroom.

[Gerry Meekins]

Hello Eliot,

Welcome to the forum!

I don’t see economy in either process unless you limit yourself to contact printing. Limit may be a poor choice of words since 5X7 contact prints can be beautiful.
After a 20 year hiatus from darkroom work I attended John’s Fine Print Workshop. He taught about everything you need to know about making a straight, wet print.
If you decide to purchase the Durst and make wet prints with John’s workshop under your belt, you should be good to go. I make both wet prints and digital prints from scans. Each process has its own inherent expense. You will need to purchase the enlarger and all the ancillary equipment,trays, paper, focus magnifier, easel, print washer and such. Depending on how large of a print you want to make these items can get expensive. To do scanning you will need the scanner, a computer with enough memory, software, and a printer. Depending on print size again, all of these items can get expensive quickly too. Each process has its own learning curve as well.

I wish you all the best whatever process you choose.

-Gerry

[Drew Wiley]

You have to choose your own workflow; they are not mutually exclusive, and you could try both. But in terms of equipment acquisition per se, once you tune up the 138 Durst you will have a piece of equipment which will last a lifetime. The scanner will need to be replaced soon enough, with periodic software upgrades or outright dead-ends.

[sashandaisy]

Thank you so very much for your replies. I took a look at the Durst 138 today and it was not
the shape I was hoping it to be. For now, I think I will continue to improve my contact printing ability and
wait until I become better at it and (more importantly) when a good Durst deal comes along.

Eliot

[neil poulsen]

For me, it's an enlarger for B&W and scanning negatives for color.

[cosmicexplosion]

For me, it's an enlarger for B&W and scanning negatives for color.

i have been told the same thing from one of sydney's master b+w printers....must be true enough to be true!

does the scanned colour print last longer than traditional.

the other master printer, reckons its about the same cost to print a large print in digi or dark room...which i found interesting.

my response would be why not do both. that way you can have the best of both worlds, and extra storage back up.

i am sure you can learn alot from manipulating in digi to see how they look etc

[dasBlute]

I use a scanner to evaluate nagatives, so some basic curves manipulation,
but the b&w print is what I'm after. I have scanned 4x5s and had them digitally
printed and they look great, but I don't have the same feeling of having 'made'
them. Just bought a 138s yesterday, hopefully I'll have prints in a couple weeks.

[thomas ciulei]

Hi Eliot,

i have just the setup you mention, 138s and v750.
i got the 750 after the 138, cause i wanted to scan the negs for internet etc.

no scan and digital print will EVER come close to a well made anologue darkroom origin print. period.
holding one of those prints in your hand is the supreme satisfaction of the whole fotographic process,
starting with choice of camera, lens, neg developing, pos developing, toning whatever.

the need to be able to operate with your images on a digital level is however really important these days.

therefore i would suggest to get the v750 (not v700- it will create newton rings on your scan due to the uncoated glass)
but also keep your eye out for a 138s in good working order for cheap money.
i got mine for 400euros, 5 componons included and have not regretted this ever. its a machine for life!

good luck to you
cheers